[MUSIC PLAYING]
Hi, everybody.
Welcome to today's workshop.
My name is Rebecca Trawick.
I'm the director and curator of the Wignall Museum.
And I want to thank you for joining us today.
Today's workshop with Landyn Pan is
presented as part of Collective Care Uncovering Identity.
Collective Care Uncovering Identity
is a collaborative series of programs developed
by the center for culture and social justice and the Wignall
Museum, that bring together artists and community
around issues relevant to the LGBT plus community,
and that look at the intersection
of identity and the arts.
Today's program is part of a series of programs
that have happened this week.
So today, we're super honored to have Landyn with us
for day two.
And huge thanks to Landyn for spending so much time
with our community.
Before I introduce you to Landyn I
want to introduce you to Dr. Letty Romo, Director of Student
Equity and Engagement and Collaborative
Partner in Collective Care.
Dr. Romo.
Hello and welcome everyone.
I'm very excited to be here, and thankful that you're joining us
for this what's going to be very fantastic opportunity for us
to engage in learning and discussion
and engaging as we honor Trans Day of Remembrance.
Before we begin this presentation,
I wanted to go ahead and read the land acknowledgment.
So with respect and honor for the land, where
Chaffey College resides and the leaders who came before us,
we would like to take a moment to acknowledge the [INAUDIBLE]
peoples, the original stewards of these sacred and unceded
homelands.
The Tongva people's history, languages, cultural traditions,
and legacy continue to shape this region.
And we recognize their continuing presence
in their homelands.
In the Spirit of truth and equity,
Chaffey College commits to uplifting
the voices of Indigenous peoples,
building an inclusive and equitable
educational environment and decolonizing the institution.
We also encourage members of Chaffey College community
to learn about the land they reside on
and the original caretakers and advocate for the culturally
responsive action.
Thank you.
Museum of Contemporary Art aims to present
diverse, innovative, contemporary programming
that engages contemporary subjects, social issues,
and artistic themes.
Sometimes presentations may contain
provocative or otherwise sensitive or mature
content for some viewers.
So today, I'm very pleased to introduce Landyn Pan.
Landyn is a trans, non-binary photographer and video producer
based in Brooklyn, New York.
Their artistic mission is to amplify
the voices of queer and trans people of color
through creating empowering and uplifting media.
Their photography work focusing on queer and trans identities,
trans bodies, and gender presentation
has been seen in Dazed, ID, Logo TV, Glad, Allure,
and many more.
As a video producer, they have covered events such as the 2018
election of Ilhan--
excuse me, Ilhan Omar, the 2018 VMAs, the 2019 Lollapalooza
Music Festival, the 2019 Made in America Music Festival,
and more.
So please join me in giving Landyn a warm virtual welcome.
And we'll hand over the platform to Landyn.
Thank you.
OK.
Roman, if you could pull up the presentation, please.
I know that some of y'all--
some of the names I kind of recognize from yesterday
from the artist talk.
If you were there yesterday, welcome back.
We're going to be looking at some of the same works
that I did, that I showed yesterday.
But this is a workshop that's on building trust
and relationships through photography with your subjects
and models.
So I'm a portrait photographer.
So this is going to be from a portrait photographer's
perspective.
But this could apply to documentary filmmaking,
narrative film, or even other styles of portraiture and art
like painting and illustration, really
anything that's collaborative.
And hopefully, whatever medium it
is that you work with, that you could take away something
from this.
So I would also say that if there is a project idea
that you have or if you are--
There's a project idea that you have
or if you kind of want to brainstorm along with this,
feel free to do so.
I would totally encourage people to participate and ask
questions through the chat.
I'll definitely be on the lookout for that.
So yeah, for this presentation, I'm
going to be talking more casually
about my perspective as a photographer
and my philosophy on photography,
and that is that you should choose
to create art in the community that you are a part of.
So this is the reason why pretty much all of my work
is on queer and trans stuff.
There are a lot of stories out there.
And I understand that like not every story is mine to tell.
And I also believe that there is no one that
can tell your story better than yourself.
And I also believe in empowering marginalized individuals
to be their own storytellers.
So oftentimes, photography and documentary film
can be really exploitative.
When work is made from this perspective
of an outsider looking in, you can really
tell versus when something is more organic or authentic.
I think that bias is always going to be there.
But I think that there are a lot of ways and steps
that we can be a little bit more intentional about it
and minimize it.
So let's take a look at the next slide.
This is just a little introduction to my photography.
We'll definitely be talking about some of the projects
throughout this and kind of what I did in those projects
to ensure that I had a connection with all
of the subjects beforehand.
So let's go to the next slide.
So let's say you're starting a new art project
and you're kind of wondering where
to begin, I feel like you really have to intimately know
a community in order to capture it well,
and the communities that you're in, or the ones that best.
So to me, it's like if I'm an Asian-American person,
how can I trust an Asian-American film
if the director is white, or if it's
a photo shoot about trans people and they're barely
any trans people on the production staff,
like, how can I trust that as well?
I actually have an example of that.
I modeled for this high-budget photo shoot.
It was about trans people in our stories there were four models.
That picture on the right, that's from that shoot.
So that's not one that I made, but I was in it.
And the entire lead production staff, they were all cis.
And they had really great intentions.
They were queer as well.
So like a cis gay men, a lot of them, and straight girls.
So they had really great intentions.
They wanted to learn about trans issues,
but it was really evident to me in their planning meetings
that I was a part of, and to the other trans models
that they didn't really do enough research
and education beforehand.
I use they/them pronouns.
And I think that sometimes at the shoot,
people did have issues gendering me correctly.
And I was kind of warned about that beforehand.
I also got asked some questions during the video interview
portion, where I felt like they made some assumptions
about trans people, like maybe that trans people have issues
with themselves rather than us having issues with society
being transphobic.
So it just showed to me that they didn't really
do enough research.
Out of the 30 staff, they had a lot
of makeup and hair people and video staff,
and whatnot on the shoot.
They probably had about 30 people, and only two of them
were trans.
And they were definitely the people
that I felt the most comfortable around.
So kind of reflecting on that sort of an example of,
like, OK, this is what happens when
you aren't prepared to engage with the community
that you don't know super well.
What I think that they needed to do
was that they probably should have
hired a trans consultant or an educator
to run a trans 101 training for all their staff beforehand,
so that way they weren't asking us.
It's, like, I came into the project mentally prepared
for this to happen.
And I did have the energy to sort of educate
people that day.
But at the end of it all, it's like I was paid
to be a model, not an educator.
And I know that this situation, it
would have made a lot of other trans people
pretty uncomfortable.
So, yeah, first was like educating themselves
beforehand.
Second was that I wish that they had hired more trans producers
and crew for the photo shoot.
I wish that they had hired at least a trans lead
person for the video crew because everyone there
was just as straight.
And although they handled things very respectfully
and from a well-intentioned place,
they didn't really fully understand trans experience.
And a lot of stuff that I was saying,
it was, like, their first time hearing about it.
So after the photo shoot, and more specifically
the video shoot came out, my friend
who was the other model kind of complained
that they only included surface level things
that they had said in the video about their trans identity
in the video.
And my response to that is because as a video editor,
you're only going to choose to edit
in what you can understand.
So it's like if the video editor didn't
have a very broad understanding of trans experience
and some of the things were too complex that they couldn't
understand it, then they're not going to edit
those things into the video.
And so as a result, the final product just
wasn't as complex or unique.
And it definitely felt more like a trans 101.
So when I start the process of sort
of thinking over what type of projects
that I want to work on first.
I just start to list out what are the communities
and identities, and have a big or small
that I'm a part of that.
Mean a lot to me.
So this could be location based.
It could be about like my hometown, current city,
my neighborhood, the school that I went to or go to,
could be about gender sexuality, race, ethnicity.
And it could also be things like hobbies and sports.
Like maybe you're part of a community garden
and you want to make a film about that,
or you're a skateboarder, and a lot of different things.
The stuff with sports is so interesting
because I was also in a shoot where it was surfing related.
And the videographer for this was a surfer.
And so because he's a surfer, he knows
how to anticipate when things are going to happen.
Like, he can tell, OK, that's a surfer ball wave.
So I'm going to get my camera ready
because maybe someone's going to catch it.
And we were totally joking around saying, like,
OK, well, it's a good thing that he's a surfer too because if he
wasn't, maybe he'd be telling us to wax
the surfboard like on the back of it rather than the front.
Or he'd, like, positioned us wrong, or something like that.
So it's, like, identity, like, broad, like, big identity
stuff aside, like, even with things, like, sports.
It's, like, when you do the activity,
you know how to shoot it better because you know what
to anticipate, and all of that.
So, yeah, if anybody has anything else
to add to this list, feel free to put it in the chat.
So in general, I just think what kind of story
do I want to tell.
If we're talking about future projects right now, for me,
that would be--
I've been thinking about it.
And it's like I've made lots of stuff
on trans and gender related things.
Now, I'm thinking, like, OK, well, my father
is an immigrant.
He's lived abroad, in China, my whole life.
And we have a lot of difficulty communicating
because of language barrier.
And I know that this is something that a lot of people
would probably relate to.
So this story is something that's in my lane
that I can tell because it's very personal to me.
It's my family.
It's my culture.
Another one that I was thinking about
recently has been maybe a short film about bisexual expansion
or something I'm writing right now.
And the setting that it takes place in is within boxing.
I'm an athlete.
I'm a personal trainer.
I take boxing classes.
So it just feels very natural and fitting,
like I know, like, the look and feel of that environment.
And I can capture that authentically.
So things like a project that I haven't ever touched on
is something that's related to Trans Day of Remembrance.
I am a trans person.
I am part of the community.
But I've just never felt like that
was my lane to make art about since anti-trans violence
usually affects Black and Brown trans women and femmes,
and me as this cis assumed transmasculine person.
In most spaces, people don't read me as trans.
So in most spaces, I feel very safe.
So even though I am in the trans community,
I felt like doing a project about that,
it just wasn't really in my lane to do.
And I see that somebody put disability and mental health
on the list.
That absolutely is something that should be on there too.
OK.
So I think overall, the project that you're doing,
it doesn't have to exactly be about you.
It could be something that's broader within your community.
But you should definitely be involved
like in that community, whatever it is, as much as you can.
And I'll explain a little bit more of that later.
But overall, I think it's super important
that connection with a community,
that you're a part of, is already there
because you can't really establish
proper trust with someone no matter
how good your intentions are.
You're going to get uncomfortable models.
You're going to get people who may not open up to you
all the way.
You're not going to get the most authentic story.
And I also think that it's worth evaluating what type of gaze
you bring into the project as an artist
when capturing people of a specific community.
There's always going to be bias.
But the question is, what can we really do to minimize it?
Next slide.
So let's say you decided on a topic
that you want to create work about.
Whatever it is, I think it's important to understand
your role as an artist.
Photography has the potential to be a really predatory space.
I've had a lot of femme friends tell me
that someone offers to shoot them,
but really it's just flirting.
Or I've heard people encounter sexual harassment
by photographers on photoshoots.
So I try to be very aware that people
might have had that sort of experience before in the way
that I interact with them.
So one thing that I think, as an artist that you should do,
is be really clear about the purpose of your project
and make the expectations clear.
Both photography and documentary filmmaking
can be exploitative spaces, where the artist profits off
of the images and stories of others.
Stories can be glorified.
They can be oversimplified or sensationalized.
If you're not careful, and it could even maybe perpetuate
some stereotypes.
So definitely come to the subject where
the community prepared and educated,
either with your personal experience or connection,
and lots of research as well.
So the example would have been that photoshoot
that I had been in prior.
That photo shoot that I had been in been in prior,
I would say that definitely was a little bit sensationalized
because they didn't come with enough education .
Beforehand
And then be respectful to the subjects
and the community at all times.
I felt like that's really obvious,
but I've just seen so many artists--
I've seen so many artists just not really, I guess,
do that step.
It's so simple, but I think that sometimes there
have been shoots where people are
in where it's like, yeah, the interaction
with the photographer has been very short.
They ask you to come on.
They take your picture.
You get some nice free pictures, but that's about it.
Really, it's like this person maybe
did it to make their own photo book.
And they're not really showing care to the people
that they're interacting with.
OK, next slide.
Capture the subject and community as authentically
as possible.
The best work is collaborative.
So make sure that you get the subject's input
and that they're part of the process.
Even if you're part of a specific community,
everyone is different.
So just knowing that and not making assumptions
when you come into that.
For example, just because I'm trans,
that doesn't mean that I understand the experience
of every trans person.
So I'm not going to go in there assuming that they're going
to have the same story as me.
So coming in there, open-minded.
There's that trust in connection already
because we're both blank, but still assumptions
can lead to a lot of bias.
And I can make the models uncomfortable
and not show up their best.
So just kind of leaving those things at the door.
Next slide.
So some examples that I'll talk about,
I have this series that I did earlier last year.
And it's the trans--
sorry, it's not trans.
It's the Mask Heartthrob series, which
is a caricature of masculinity, a queer-fied version
of all of the iconic masculine heartthrob
archetypes that we see on TV and movies that we had a crush on,
or that we want it to be.
So I came up with this project because I was reflecting
on my own masculinity one day.
I feel like as a transmasculine person,
there's a lot of pressure to not perpetuate
the same harm as cis men.
And because of that, I think that I've
seen between my peers and I that we
will avoid certain things because we
feel like it's masculine.
And sometimes we see that as conflated with toxicity,
even though masculinity isn't inherently toxic.
So I wanted to have this project that
really celebrated masculinity in, like, a fun, playful way.
So when I did the casting for this project,
I wanted to find a broad range of voices in queer masculinity.
I didn't want it to just be transmasculine people because I
wanted to have the project sort of speak
to the fact that masculinity doesn't just belong to men.
It doesn't belong to cis men.
It doesn't belong to trans guys.
It can belong to androgynous people.
People who use she/her or they/them.
And people of all sorts of identities.
So I found a lot of different people.
I did a casting call.
A lot of different people hit me up.
And you know, I had one on one conversations with each of them
about their relationships with masculinity
and how they saw themselves, fitting or not
fitting into that role.
I wanted to really make sure that I collaborated with them
to make sure that they were portrayed
how they want it to be.
I worked with them on picking the character
that they'd be shot in.
So for example, like I would list out sort of the things
that I would see in movies and TV a lot.
So on the left there is like the rock star,
in this case, a punk rocker.
In the middle, there's the jock.
We see that all the time in, like, pretty much
like every teen movie.
On the right is the K-pop star.
Can go to the next slide?
On the left here, vampire.
In the middle, the fairy tale prince.
And then on the right, the skater.
So I would list out a bunch of different things
that I saw in movies, longer than the list of people
that I actually had as models.
And I would brainstorm and work with these people
on what fit them the best.
So if this wasn't a collaborative process,
I could have just looked at the person's picture and be like,
OK, well you're cute, and assign them characters,
and then never talk to them.
But I want it to be collaborative.
So we had ongoing discussions.
And everybody here also worked individually
with our stylists to make sure that the clothes
that they had made them comfortable.
So they came into the project knowing what it was, like
that it was going to be everyone playing
into this masculine character, playing that up,
that masculine side of them.
But I wanted to still let them have control over,
like, what that looked like, and what
that meant, and the clothing so that they felt real
and they felt good about it being published.
My other example, on the next slide,
is my series trans and gender nonconforming naked paint
party.
This was done-- this was a project I shot 50 trans people
over six or so photoshoots.
Each group add 5 to 15 people in it.
The shoots were four to six hours long.
And in order to establish trust, we
would always start out with a group discussion about bodies,
body image, dysphoria, really anything
that the participants wanted to talk about.
So that way, they could establish trust
with each other.
And this was also our time to talk about consent
and set ground rules.
So that would always be the first hour of the photo shoot.
The next hour or two was the actual painting.
Everyone strips.
I, myself, also strips so that way I
get on the same level as everyone else
and lessen that power dynamic just
because as the photographer or the creator of a project,
there's always going to be this inherent power dynamic.
Or that's a lot of times assumed.
And I work really hard to sort of set
the role that back a little bit and make
it feel really collaborative, like, this is my project,
but this is yours as well.
So that was one thing that I would
do to make people comfortable in the beginning.
And even before that, I would have
sign up form for participants that had
them answer a lot of questions.
First, I had like a long statement
on this form about the origin story of my project, what
it meant to me personally as a trans person, what
my intentions were with this, and also stated
that this project was not sexual.
So this was probably like a 1 and 1/2 page Word document
worth of words.
I was very vulnerable with the models
or the people who are interested in the photoshoot
about my story.
So in turn, they would feel safe for being vulnerable with me.
And the questions included, what is your relationship
with your body as a trans or non-binary person?
Examples, I feel dysphoric because of a body part.
I feel more dysphoric because of hormones than before.
I suffer from eating disorder or self-harm because of dysphoria.
I feel stigmatized for not being trans enough.
So these are just examples that I put to kind of encourage.
Like, you can really talk about anything here.
Another question I had, what's your opinion
on trans representation currently,
name the good and bad, and what you wish to see?
What makes you feel affirmed and validated in your body?
How do you cope slash what do you
do to heal from the ongoing traumas
you face as a trans and/or non-binary person whose
body is constantly stigmatized?
And then the last question was, why
do you want to be a part of this photoshoot?
And what are your expectations, if any?
And these questions are OK for me to ask
because I'm trans myself.
I feel like that kind of has an automatic trust there,
and especially after, like, basically, I
answer all of these questions in my artist statement of why
I'm doing this project.
This photoshoot-- we can go to the next slide.
So you could just see some of the images that
came up from this.
This photoshoot would look very, very different
if I wanted to just photograph naked trans people.
Like, if I was just, like, all right,
everyone has a 15 second time slot.
They're just going to show up.
And I'm just going to photograph you.
I feel like that would create a very different type of image.
Can we go to the next slide?
And in this series, didn't hold any expectations
for how people were going to act or feel.
So a lot of the pictures are very joyous.
And it's because over the several hours
that all the participants spend together,
we really get to let go and relax over time,
and really, like, I guess get to know each other in this space.
And so sometimes joy was very natural in this space.
We go to the next slide.
But sometimes it wasn't.
A lot of people came into this photo shoot.
And on their form, they told me that they
were-- or in the discussion, told
everybody that they were actually really terrified to do
this, but that they felt like it would be, I guess,
challenging and something that would give them perspective.
They wanted to be to challenge themselves
to be a part of an affirming experience,
but being naked in front of other people
was scary for them.
And so sometimes portraits would show up more reserved,
like this person on the right.
Sometimes people would like dance and be really extra,
and all this stuff.
But for example, this person on the right, in the blue,
and many other participants, they were a little bit more
reserved.
And you know, I don't push them to pose in any sort of way.
Definitely, while people are getting their pictures taken,
all of their new friends at the shoot
are, they're hyping each other up and all this stuff.
But I wanted to make sure that no matter what,
that they get to be captured the way that they're
feeling in the moment, you know, whether that's good
or whether--
basically, they don't have to act.
Like, if it doesn't feel natural to them,
they don't have to do it.
OK.
So we can go to the next slide.
So starting the relationship with the subjects
in your photos starts with reaching out.
So, again, being clear about your project and intentions
and timeline.
This is going to come off as really professional.
I feel like I get a lot of DMs, where sometimes people
are like, oh, let's collab.
And it's just one sentence.
And it's just like I have no context for what any of this
means or what you want from me.
Like people have said, sometimes,
especially my femme friends, it's
like, well, if some random guy is like,
hey, let's shoot some time.
They're probably flirting and they don't really
care about the photography that much.
So that's something that I keep in mind when I reach out
to other people, is that, like, I
want to minimize the anxiety by letting
them know exactly as many details
as I have at the moment.
Yeah, so going back to when I get DM from other people.
It's like, yeah, sometimes I'll get DMs
from people where they're just saying let's collab.
Other times, I get really detailed,
like project statements and timeline from people.
And those are the only people I reply to basically.
Second thing, when reaching out is definitely
consider compensation.
If it's a personal project and it's low key
and it's local, like if I'm a trans person, it's like, oh,
I want to do some trans portraits of whatever,
whatever.
A lot of times, people don't mind
doing it for fun, especially if they believe in the vision.
If it's something commercial, I think
that people should absolutely advocate
on behalf of the models for fair compensation.
And then if the project is something
that you think that you're going to make money off of later,
I would definitely consider back compensation.
So for example, giving the model a percentage
of the money that you make off of their photos
or donating it to a cause that you choose with them,
or something like that.
I've definitely done photoshoots before where
the artist is selling prints, like where they shoot me.
And they're selling prints, but the 100% of the proceeds
go to a Black trans organization.
Then to me, it's like, all right, yeah, that's fine.
I'm cool with doing that for free,
if that's what you're doing and I'm getting
like a cool picture out of it.
So just kind of be aware of that.
And also take into consideration,
I guess, the dynamics in your compensation.
So for example, if I'm a trans masked person,
one thing that I ran into as an issue-- not really an issue,
but a limitation for me when I did the naked paint party
was that a lot of the people coming into the projects
were also transmasculine or AFAB because I felt like it was
because the project was by me.
They felt like they related to me and my words
because they are also assigned female at birth.
And so not as many trans femmes showed up to the shoot.
So it's like if I were to want to work with a trans femme
person in more of a collaborative dynamic,
I would definitely want to compensate that person really
well to be part of this project.
Part of the planning and the production.
I always encourage that people really
get to know their subjects.
This seems really obvious, but it definitely is not something
that every photographer or documentary filmmaker does.
So do at least like a 30-minute coffee before and/or after.
Like you don't always have to be talking specifically
about the project.
But I think you should just get to know the person.
And this will really help you assess each other's vibe
and know whether or not you're even
a good match as collaborators.
Definitely, if you have the time,
chat with them while they're shooting
and find ways to connect and relate.
It doesn't, again, have to be whatever the photo subject is,
but maybe you find out, oh, we both love traveling,
or we've both been to this place in the past, or something
like that.
And get involved in the community
that you're photographing for a period of time
before the art project starts and ask for feedback.
Next slide.
So in terms of getting to know people,
that's just something that's really important in order
to get people comfortable.
That could take a little time or that could take a lot of time.
It really depends on who you are as an artist.
I know some people are shyer than others.
For me, if I can afford to take the time with photoshoots,
I will take the time.
For this series, this is a trans couple series that I did.
I got people in at two-hour blocks.
So that is really a luxury.
Because sometimes if you're in a commercial photoshoot,
maybe you really do just have 15 minutes with people,
and that sucks.
But there's always going to be downtime where I really
try to squeeze in conversations with the models that I have.
So with these couples, they were in two-hour blocks.
I would chat with each couple for the 30 to 60 minutes
that they would take them to get makeup done or get dressed.
I just sat there like we were friends.
Like, we would talk about-- first,
usually as an icebreaker, I would ask
kind of like how did you meet?
And then we would just have casual conversations
about whatever, whether that was yeah, traveling or events
that were going on in the city.
I don't know.
Sometimes people would talk to me about surgeries or--
basically, it's like I let them lead the conversation.
I would ask questions with curiosity.
But I let them lead the conversation into
whether or not they want it to be more casual or more deep.
But yeah, we just talk as friends.
And I'm still connected with a lot of these folks.
Let's go to the next slide.
Just to show more photos from the series.
So really talking to them.
And as a friend, I feel like gets
them really comfortable in front of the camera.
They're couples as well.
So it's like they're already with somebody that they know.
So they are already a little more comfortable to begin with.
But it's definitely nice to let people have a friend or two,
like at the shoots, to help them be more comfortable if it
is a solo shoot.
So let's go to the next slide.
Next slide, please.
Thank you.
I mentioned earlier to get more into the community, if you can,
of whoever you're shooting.
So for example, I am queer and trans.
So-- oh, here, let me backtrack a little bit.
I would say-- let me back talk a little bit.
I'm going to explain this series real quick.
So this is a series that I did on Brooklyn drag
and burlesque performers, all who
were queer non-binary or trans.
The concept for this was that I really kind of wanted
to show like their campiness and portray it in a series
that I didn't really name anything besides like queer
serial killer series.
Basically, everyone portrays like, yeah, a type of murder.
And I would talk to them about what type of characters
they would play on stage and what type of persona they had.
And we would choose it together.
So for example, this person on the left is a mafia lord.
The person in the middle is doing a satanic ritual.
The person on the right, this is kind of a,
I guess, like a sexier version of like a chainsaw serial
killer.
Let's go back to the previous slide.
The person on the left here is like some sort
of Dexter like TV show-esque, like take your body apart
type of murderer.
The person in the middle, they actually already
had an act where they were a, I guess, housewife who
ends up killing her husband.
So I'm like, OK, that's funny, like that works for this.
The person on the right is an arsonist.
So I kind of did this series to play on the fact
that a lot of villains in older movies and TV shows,
especially kids shows, they're queer coded.
So we did the series together.
I am queer and trans, so capturing queer and trans
performers, that's not out of my range.
I felt like me and most of these participants,
we had a lot of automatic trust just because I watched
the performances, and I'm able to see their gender,
and understand their style of performance,
and relate to it maybe more so than other people.
However, I'm not a performer.
I would go to these shows often and I wanted
to be more than just a voyeur.
Like, I really wanted to understand, like, yeah,
what even is their lifestyle and their process
like to get ready for stage, and stuff like that.
So I'm not a performer, but I did seek out ways
to get involved in the show.
So I would sell tickets at the door.
I would sell raffles or be like stage managing, which
really just meant sweeping the stage before the next act.
So that way, I could be part of the show.
I would also, like, be in my underwear.
So I match the vibe and stuff.
But I wanted to do this to go beyond
a transactional relationship of, like, OK, I'll
take photos for you.
I'm going to get art out of it.
And then you're going to get photos out
of this for your posters.
There are a lot of photographers in Brooklyn
who do that for them.
And I just wanted to have relationships
with everybody in a deeper way.
So being involved in these shows,
it was really fun because I would get to go there early.
I would be backstage.
There was this mutual feeling, like, I'm part of it.
And I'm there to support them in whatever ways
that they need while they're performing.
So this was really like a genuine interest of mine
in the scene.
And it really helped to build mutual comfort.
So, let's see.
Yeah, I guess that's just kind of my example of,
like, there are ways that you can
get to know the people that you want to get to know better.
A lot of these folks I would probably
have seen them perform like five or six times
before we shot them.
So it's not like we even needed to ask that much like,
oh, you know, what type of character are you?
It's, like, no, I've seen it.
And I can make my own suggestions based off of that.
And then I would say someone who would be even better than me
at capturing them would be another performer.
There are performer photographers out there
who would do both.
I feel like they would definitely
have a different perspective because it's like they really
have the internal perspective of how to get ready
and what it takes to get on stage,
and all of the self-talk and pep talks
that you have to do for yourself.
So that is somebody that I would say
would be even better at capturing a series like this.
OK, next question.
I'm sorry, next slide.
I see a question or two in here maybe.
And I'll address it at the end.
Another slide.
So we're almost done with this part.
But just to kind of round out some best practices
during the project, take some time to chat with the model
during their day.
So take some time to chat with the model like before or during
about their day about anything, try to make the time for it,
especially if it's your first time meeting,
like, you didn't get to do a call or coffee beforehand.
Allow them to bring a friend to make
them feel more comfortable.
And then one thing, I actually do this too as a fitness
trainer, is to meet them at their physical level,
that way, your eye line is always matched.
So for example, if they're sitting, you're sitting.
If they're standing, you're standing.
If they're on the ground, you're on the ground,
at least when you're talking to them.
If you're shooting and you need to get different angles,
it's a different story.
But when you're having a conversation,
try to match their eye line.
I feel like that really shows that you respect them
and that you're in a collaboration with them
rather than if they were sitting in you were higher
up, that creates a little bit more of like dynamic
where it's like you're in charge.
So I always try to match that and be intentional of that.
That is something that's, I think, subconscious.
And then as I'm taking the photos,
I usually like to show people the pictures as we go along,
get a sense of what they like and what they don't like,
and make sure that they're comfortable with how
you are depicting them.
Next slide.
After the photo shoot, if a model
is uncomfortable with the photo that you have posted,
offer to take it down.
This has happened to me before, especially with the naked paint
party series just because it is so sensitive because it's,
like, people are naked online.
Well, there was one instance where somebody
asked me to take down a photo because she wanted
it edited it in a certain way.
And I didn't really understand what she was talking about.
But then I would take a step back and just remind myself
that whatever she's seeing is what she's seeing.
And this is a picture of her.
So you need to just listen and take it down.
So, yeah, if you get asked to take something down, do it.
I've heard of people who don't, and I think that's ridiculous.
Even though it's like I take release
forms to just legally protect me.
I have the legal right to post these photos, like I own them.
The person that is in the photos doesn't own them.
But I think that it is morally wrong
to use the person's image against their will.
So if somebody asks you to take it down,
just do it even if you know it's a hit to your portfolio
or whatever.
At the end of the day, you know, it's someone else's image.
And how would you feel too if you had a horrible picture
or if you thought that this horrible picture of you
existed out there without your consent?
So depending on the sensitivity of the subject,
ask the model to double check and approve their own quotes
for publication.
I know that--
I just feel like in interviews with--
me and my friends, when we get interviewed for publications,
either as artists or if at an event or something like that,
the journalists always promise that they'll, like,
let us check the quote before it's published
and they never do.
So I definitely make sure that the models
do get to see what's being published about them
or that they are approving everything
within this page is OK, and maybe the publication
uses a part of it.
I just make sure that nothing--
basically, that like, no one is publishing something
that they didn't say.
And then lastly, if you wanted to, you could
have a show or an event to that's
in person to connect the people that are in your artworks
that you didn't have a group photo shoot,
like naked paint party.
Like the trans couple one, all of them did it separately.
That one I didn't have an event for.
I actually did have events for naked paint party
where people could go to and stuff.
But for the online publications, when that gets published,
I kind of just use that to connect people.
Like, hey, like just making sure,
like, this other model of mine who
played this person in the shoot, they really
said something that I felt like you would resonate with.
So I kind try to go out of my way
to connect people that I think would get along
in these photoshoots.
Because at the end of the day, art
is about connection and relation.
So that's it for my presentation.
Take a genuine interest in your subjects.
I feel like if you don't have a genuine interest
in your subjects, that is just not the project for you to do.
There's probably something out there
that you maybe connect better with.
Do your research, know your lane and what's not your lane,
collaborate, treat your subjects like people, and be patient,
and take the time to learn and to create.
Creating art is about the process
just as much as it is about the journey.
So if anybody has any questions, I'll take them.
I have a.
Question Landyn, thank you for sharing that.
I think one of the things that really stick out to me
is that even though you're talking about this in an artist
lens, right, as a photographer lens,
I think there's so much that you've
said that is transferable to us who work in a college, right,
who are working with students and engaging in trying
to build trust, right?
How are we-- one of the things I heard through your words
is this, number one, intent versus impact.
And then number two is really centering
the student and their experience, right,
or the subject in their--
Yeah.
So I just wanted to say thank you
because I felt like there's so much transferable knowledge
that you shared with us right now.
Absolutely.
I usually think of myself as like not this,
like, oh, like, I'm the ultimate creator of this project,
like take your ego out of it sort of thing.
And it's just like I want to share stories
about blank because this is important to me.
So that's how I chose the subject for that trans.
Not trans, I always say that, the mask heartthrob series.
Like that's a topic that I wanted to do.
But ultimately, it's like I'm helping other people tell
their stories.
That's yeah, the way that I view it.
And then when you view it like that,
I feel like sort of the collaboration piece
is a lot more natural.
I appreciate what Letty just shared because I
had the exact same thought.
I think not only as folks who work with students,
but I was thinking about the work
that Roman, Andy, and I do, working with artists, artist
communities, curators, et cetera.
We always have to ask ourselves, are we
the right person to try to organize this story
or tell this story?
And when we're not, we have to be
willing to say, OK, we need to find the right person.
Yeah.
So I think it's interesting how--
like Letty said like how this advice
is really important about working
with all kinds of people.
And really truly at any time, collaboration is happening,
which that's a relationship that should
be happening with most of the work that any of us
might be doing, right?
Yeah, absolutely.
So there's a question in here that you put down
that is, what advice do you have for creatives
who are commissioned or hired for a project where they don't
have any personal connection?
How can they put your advice into practice
in the commercial world?
And this is a really good question because I have seen--
I guess, yeah.
There are a lot of discussions about this
actually among photographers.
And I think the answer is that if you feel like it is not
in your lane to tell, the story that you're being hired to do,
that you recommend people who are.
So for example, like if somebody asked me to--
I mean, I don't really think that this
would happen, hopefully, but I guess it does all the time.
It's like if somebody were to ask me to shoot a project,
you know, like for Black History Month,
I feel like I would probably be like I don't think
that this is my land to do.
Here are three Black photographers
that I really admire who could do this job better.
So I think doing something like that
is really important because yeah, I
mean there are a lot of photographers out there
who are white and cis and straight, especially guys.
And they take up a lot of projects when they could
be sharing those with people.
I think that the conversations that I've had
is with other queer photographers who
kind of complain about like companies will do queer
editorials or they'll do like OK, like, gender
neutral fashion, and they really want to have this like queer
aesthetic.
They hire like models with buzz cuts and stuff like that.
And they have a straight man shoot it.
And it's like they definitely should have had a queer
person shoot that instead.
There are plenty of queer photographers out there
who can do that job.
So that would be--
That's interesting, too.
Because it's like in the film industry, I mean,
I think every industry, right?
There's a reckoning happening.
But you hear it in the film industry and TV, especially
like who are the actors who are hired for what roles, right?
And so it's like that ethical consideration is interesting.
Yeah.
So that is definitely something I believe in.
It's like it's like even though I believe
I'm a really great photographer, like I'm not
the photographer for every job.
Landyn, are you naturally an outgoing kind
of person in terms of--
I think when I studied photography,
a problem that I always had was as a personality,
going up to people and engaging them, and trying
to connect to even get that first step going of shooting
a photography kind of project.
Like, is it something you've had to work at in order
to be at all comfortable with going up
to strangers, with engaging people,
with opening yourself up, just even
on that basic level of just having to talk to people
and ask them.
Like, how do you start the ask and how do you
like build up the--
I'm definitely shy at first but not--
I'm shy, initially.
So it's like I've never actually approached anybody
in person like that.
Usually, I'll initiate contact with somebody
via, usually, Instagram.
So maybe it's like I find them through a casting call,
or it's like I know who they are in the community,
or maybe they were mutuals on Instagram,
or something like that.
And I've seen them around before.
And it's like, oh, like, I feel like you would be a really
cool person to get to know.
I initiated it through Instagram just because I
feel like that's safer for me.
It doesn't feel as awkward.
So yeah, it's Instagram person.
And I know for me that my strongest suit
is one on one interaction.
So that's why like I tried to have
enough a little bit of at least a little bit of one on one
conversation with people beforehand.
So that way, maybe when I do see them in a group setting,
it feels like, all right, like, we already
have a relationship started.
It's not like I'm like this brand new person
like thrown in the middle of a party, or something like that.
But that's a great question.
I think that there's many ways to do it.
And a lot of photographers are shy.
So yeah, I think it's totally cool
to reach out to people via the internet
first and then connect with them however you are comfortable
Thank you.
Yeah, that makes sense.
And it ties back into the idea of starting
in your own community.
I guess that awkwardness isn't as awkward
if it's part of a community that you feel comfortable with.
Yeah.
Oh, you know what?
I would also say that whenever there's a new project,
I would start with, like, your friends and sort of people
that you already know first.
That way, like you both have mutual comfort with them.
Like it's on your end, if you're the artist and you mess up,
but it's your friend, you know, nobody really cares.
There's not really that pressure there.
And then it's, like, all right, maybe
once you have a couple of products from that
and you post about it--
this example really works, I think,
with my queer serial killers series.
It's like I met that first person online.
I didn't know them at all.
Having that one on one interaction was really good.
But we were mutuals first, I guess.
So it felt like I wasn't just totally
reaching out to a stranger.
It was like, oh, like, they follow me
because they see my work and they like it.
So you know, they'd probably be down.
So I guess they weren't a friend.
But it was like after I met them,
they introduced me to a lot of other people.
And it's like why don't you shoot two people.
So I shot their partner second.
So that was really nice because it's like, oh, well,
I met your partner.
We could talk about that as a point of relation.
And then after that, it's like, well, I have
two photos from the series now.
Now that I have two photos, it's like other performers that
see it, even if we're not really friends, they see it.
And they want to be part of it.
And I would say that going to the shows to
helped with that interaction because it's
like the more you see people--
if I see this person at this same show every Wednesday,
but they're doing a different act,
it's like we start to familiarize ourselves
with each other.
And having a role there, then it's like OK,
well, I'm the person that sells tickets.
So it's like you have to talk to me for some reason.
So that gives me sort of, I guess,
like a way to communicate with people
because it's like, well, I have a job here so I
have to talk to you.
I think that's a good sort of technique too.
OK.
So I have another question here.
For engaging within the community
that you make photo projects with,
how long do you continue to engage after the project?
How do you manage the transition into other interests
and projects?
So I feel like I definitely communicate with them
through when the project is published at the very least.
And then after that, I think it depends on how natural
or not your relationship is, right?
Like some people were going to get along
with more than others.
So our discussions about really natural,
I'll definitely check in with them and see how they're doing.
But if not, then it's just kind of like thank
you so much for being a part of this project,
and stuff like that.
And then we may not talk to each other.
OK.
I know that we're coming up to the end of the session.
I don't know if there's one last question or whatnot,
but I wanted to first thank everyone for joining us today.
And I also want to give a very special thank you to Landyn
and totally going to--
Landyn and I have worked together for a long time.
And I am so happy that they were able to join us
today and really offer such amazing insight of not
only as an artist, but also about how we can show up
and be more intentional with how we interact
with our peers, or colleagues, or students, in this case.
And so from your surfboard, example,
where you're talking about, like,
if it wasn't for someone telling you what
side to wax or to shine of your surfboard,
you wouldn't have known and how important
that is that we honor each other and the perspectives
that we give.
But then also really, this sense of showing care, right?
Like being able to be present for the people
that we're working with and we're connecting with.
And so Landyn, I thank you for being here with us.
We learned a lot yesterday and today.
And I appreciate you.
And I appreciate you being here.
Thank you.
Yeah, I got one last thing, I guess
to answer [INAUDIBLE],, who asked that question just now.
I'll say also that like some of the people
that I've met in these photo shoots,
like I have built really real friendships with.
Two of the people that are burlesque performers,
they're getting married to each other.
And I'm invited to their wedding next year.
So that's like a 30 person guest list.
So it's like I have met some really incredible people
and built really incredible friendships
through my photography work.
Yeah, that's it.
Thank you so much, everyone.
Thank you, Landyn.
And follow Landyn on Instagram.
Do you have other places on social media
that people can continue to follow your work?
It's just Instagram right now.
So it's at LandynPan, L-A-N-D-Y-N P-A-N. Thank you.
Thanks, Landyn.
Thank you.
All right, y'all, have a good night everyone.
You, too.
Take care.
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