[AUDIO LOGO]
Welcome, everybody.
So good to see you here this evening.
My name is Rebecca Trawick, pronouns she/hers.
I'm the director and curator of the Wignall Museum
of Contemporary Art located on the Rancho Cucamonga
campus of Chaffey College.
Thanks for joining us this evening
for the Craft of Zinesters, a panel discussion.
The event is planned as part of a series
leading up to the return of Zine Fest next week.
We're super excited.
That's 3/8, 12:00 to 2:00 at the Wignall
Museum on the Chaffey College campus in Rancho Cucamonga.
Zine Fest and zine programming are
developed in collaboration between folks
within the arts, communication, and design
academic and career community, the Wignall Museum,
and the Chaffey College Library.
Shout out to Adam Martinez, Sandra Galeas, Nell Watkins,
and Vicki Tulacro for their organizational and creative
work related to zines at Chaffey College this year
and in the past.
Events are made possible in part due to the support of student
equity and engagement.
We invite you to join us next week at Zine Fest
and meet and support local zinesters
and to enjoy community around art making and activism.
So first, our facilitators.
Sandra B. Galeas, she, is a local Inland Empire artist
with an interest and passion for zines.
Her latest zine project, Amor y Rabia,
highlighted and honored feminist knowledge
learned from the matriarchs of her immigrant Colombian family.
Her love for zines include their accessibility, creativity,
and knowledge shared throughout communities.
Professor Adam D. Martinez has been involved
in zine culture for a decade.
He cofounded the digital literary zine Por Vida
with the purpose of creating a space for writers of all levels
to practice the submission and publishing process.
He's participated in local zine fests over the years,
created special-edition zines for his music releases,
collaborated with Chaffey colleagues to create zines,
and contributed zines to Chaffey College's zine collection.
OK, so our guest downstairs, in alpha order.
Matt Paramo, he/him, is an artist
based in southern California.
He runs an online store, distributing company,
and a podcast for independent artists called Rat Nest.
Sondria, she/her, is an author, editor, and director
of Lion Light Creative Education,
based in the Inland Empire.
She started her publishing company,
Everything is Paper LLC, at the end of 2022
and hopes to provide independent artists with a space
to see themselves in print.
Rhea Tepp, they/them, is a queer artist based in Los Angeles.
They are one of the cofounders of LA Zine Fest
and co-organized the event from 2012 to 2020.
The personal zines Rhea creates range from companion zines
to their audio fiction works, collections of poetry,
to research-based scenes for mutual aid projects.
Rhea performs musical sets that collage samples, storytelling,
sci-fi, ASMR, and offers gender-affirming voice lessons
as a healing practice.
One of their favorite zines to recommend to people
is called Learning Good Consent, edited by Cindy Crabb.
And lastly, but not least, Jen Venegas, they/them,
is a queer nonbinary femme.
They are a writer and spiritual healer.
So a huge thanks to everyone who is here today
sharing their love of zines.
We appreciate you all.
So virtual shout out, and I'll pass it off to Sandra.
Thank you, Rebecca.
Thank you, everybody, for joining us tonight.
I would like to open up the space with a land
acknowledgment.
With respect and honor for the lands we gather on
and the leaders before us, we would
like to take a moment to acknowledge
that Gabrielino-Tongva peoples, the original stewards
of the sacred and unceded homelands.
The Tongva peoples' history, languages, cultural traditions,
and legacy continue to shape this region,
and we recognize their continuing presence
in their homelands.
In the spirit of truth and equity,
Chaffey College commits to uplifting
the voices of Indigenous peoples and building
an inclusive and equitable educational environment
and decolonizing the institution.
We also encourage members of the Chaffey College community
to learn about the land they reside on
and the original caretakers and advocate for culturally
responsive action.
Professor Adam Martinez?
Thank you, Sandra.
So let's start this conversation, Zinesters.
So what I would like to happen is this
is just going to be very open.
We have some questions that the team has
kind of cultivated over the past couple months,
and we'll go through those.
And as Rebecca said, at the end, hopefully
we'll have some time for our attendees
if you have any questions for a Q&A segment.
If we didn't cover something that you
want to know about in these questions, by all means,
feel free.
And so this is going to be very, like I said, open.
I'm going to ask the question.
And our panelists, you can just go ahead and unmute yourself
and speak your piece about it.
And obviously, we'd like to hear from each and every one of you
for every question.
Are we ready?
All right.
OK, so the first question is very big, right?
It's, how did you get started in zine culture?
What was your first experience with zines?
And what hooked you on zines?
So it's kind of three questions in one.
My zine experience, I started out as a lookie-loo.
One of my friends invited me to the zine fest.
I want to say either 2014 or 20--
I want to say it was 2014 at 2015.
And I was just amazed that I was meeting
the authors at the same time of buying the book.
So that blew my mind.
I was writing already at the time, but I hadn't published.
And it just-- it created the foundation
of how I do my work now.
Like I'm like, oh, I could have been just writing things
and getting them straight to the public,
and there's venues for that.
So that's how it started.
And then, you know, it got crazy.
[LAUGHS]
I guess my first introduction to zines and zine making
was a collective out of Berkeley called Slingshot that
does activism zines and kind of caught that like tail
end of high school, so like mid-2000s.
I was just really intrigued and interested in how
they presented information like why not to talk to the cops,
and know your rights, and things that
weren't being talked about.
And then the fact that it was an accessible platform.
It was a few bucks.
I think it's $4 a month-- or $4 a year still.
You get four issues in the mail.
They do a yearly planner.
It's a very cool little collective.
They've been around since the '80s I think.
But that was introduction one, and then
with making art and making music,
you meet other people that self-publish
and do projects that they can give out that is low cost,
and you just become a collector.
You start to appreciate everything
and everyone's unique voice and everyone's view
on whatever they're doing, whether it's
art, music, writing, reviewing.
And I've been hooked ever since.
I got started in zines when I was around 18, I think,
which was a long time ago.
But I used to go to shows in LA, and when
I would be standing in line, there
was this zine collective that would sell their zines
to people standing in line.
And I forget what they were called.
I think they were called De Facto Death Camp or something,
a bunch of zinester dudes like selling their writing
and their art and stuff.
And I was like, OK, cool.
And I noticed at the same time a lot of my friends
were getting involved in zines, in online communities,
LiveJournal, things like that.
And yeah, so I think there was this movement around that time,
like late '90s, sort of like a resurgence of the early '90s
feminist zines.
And there's a big long history of zines,
but I was able to get involved in that.
I've always been a writer, and so it was a really cool way
to get some of my writing out and also
read my friends' writing, read different experiences
from different people in a really--
like other people have said, like a really accessible way.
So yeah, that's why I'm into zines because they're awesome.
My first experience with zines was when I was in high school.
And I was-- at the time, I was living in Seattle, Washington.
And there was a big protest.
It was a WTO protest that was really major at the time
and I walked into what I didn't know was an anarchist space.
So it was like the first time I experienced
a zine and the first time I've experienced an anarchist space.
And yeah, I was handed something that I called a pamphlet
for a really long time.
And yeah, it mostly it was talking
about rights with police and a lot of things
that were really contrary to what
I was learning in high school.
So I kept it in my pocket for a long time.
Awesome.
Thank you all so much for sharing
how you came into contact with zines, the culture,
and how it's transformed into what all of you do now.
So I'm going to go ahead and share the next question.
Why have you chosen zines as an art practice, as activism,
and/or as a business?
So I'm going to let the question kind of simmer,
and then we can go ahead and start with Matt.
As I said, it started out as kind
of just an interesting activism format, information
being shared for free, if not for really cheap.
And those pivotal years, like late high school, early college
when you're kind of figuring out what you actually believe
and figuring out who you are, there
was just a lot of interesting content,
as well as I was in the music scene and always making art.
So it was a way to find out about bands,
about other artists, what people were
doing on the other side of the country without the resources
of the internet that we have now.
So it was always--
just drew me in, and I've stuck with it.
And as an artist, I've created my own art zines, mostly just
sketchbook zines, serieses of those.
I also dabbled a little bit in trying to do some writing
and putting together a zine that was not only reviewing music
but had like food recipes and different things
of that nature, as well as art.
I think it just always has focused around art for me.
And in the beginning of the pandemic,
when I got laid off from my--
a couple bar gigs I had, I was unemployed.
I was like, I got to do something with my time.
So I started my business, Rat Nest.
And we've been curating an online shop
of independent artists, comic book makers, and zine makers.
And yeah, it just all stemmed from back in the day
when I got hooked.
Sondria.
Particularly, zines for me is that direct contact
of not having--
or being able to get to my reader
without a filter of something else,
like the publishing industry rules
of what I thought they were before I knew anything
about zine.
That's been huge for me.
Even when I'm creating, I just don't have certain things
in mind anymore when I'm making books
now because my whole basis is self-publishing.
So pretty much from--
after Zine Fest, from publishing the zines,
I started self-publishing short story anthologies,
which allowed for me to start teaching about self-publishing
and writing books.
That all stemmed from the zine community.
And then, like she was saying and like Rebecca
was saying in my biography, I started
the self-publishing company now so
that I can help other people publish
zines and their sci-fi stuff.
So that's kind of where it took me career-wise.
And politically, I was part--
I'm part of a collective, art collective,
called #SNATCHPOWER.
And so zines and burlesque kind of go hand in hand
as far as my artistic liberation,
my sexual liberation, my just overall femme
liberation, period And just the idea of being able to express
intellect without having kind of the typical supremacy standard,
like the supremacy is authenticity.
If you can articulate who you are thoroughly,
that makes the piece good.
And so I only find that--
I found that first in zines, and it helps me bring--
I bring all that to--
I bring it to everything.
I hope that answered the question.
[LAUGHS]
Rhea?
Sure.
[LAUGHTER]
I don't know why that question always
gives me so much anxiety.
So, yeah.
No pressure.
Oh, here I go.
Amaze.
And this is Ace, by the way.
This is Ace.
[LAUGHS] We've been companions for a week now, so--
I-- well, first, I want to give big--
just big appreciation to Sondria and Jen because they
both have been really influential in my journey
as a zine person, both as a zine maker and an organizer.
Meeting Sondria and Uhuru, who cofounded #SNATCHPOWER,
literally changed my life and continues
to change my life the more we continue
to collaborate and deepen our friendships and work together.
And I just am excited that we're going
to just be really wrinkly making zines together for a long time.
And I'm sure Jen will hop on a panel talk all together.
Matt will be there.
We'll just be like, talking about Tumblr-- pre Tumblr.
But yeah, so #SNATCHPOWER had a huge--
huge influence on me.
Jen donated their zine collection to me a long,
long time ago.
And that-- I remember exactly when it happened.
It was like on the street.
It was like a drop off.
And Jen really wanted this important library of theirs
to live on and be passed on, just like have a new life.
And that ended up really becoming the foundation
of the LA Zine Fest zine library that is still archived
and exists.
And yeah, just so grateful for that.
And I feel like, yeah, I continue to create zines
as a tool to disseminate what it is that I'm doing that I find
is--
when I find limitation in digital spaces,
I tend to utilize zines to, yeah,
have creative, effective communication with people.
And it's a beautiful way to collaborate and organize.
And I'm going to pause there.
Jen?
Oh my god, I totally forgot about that zine drop off.
Amazing.
Thank you.
What a cool memory.
Yeah, so zines have been, for me, about community, especially
as a disabled introvert, like mostly homebound person.
And so it's a way to connect with folks.
And also the idea of zine fests, where
there's like one, maybe two days where you go out,
and you get to be around like a bunch of people, just
doing their thing and showing their art and their craft.
And just being able to be a part of that
is one of my favorite things about zines,
about art in general, just one of my favorite things.
And zines really were foundational in politicizing
me, like incredibly.
Also, they can be incredible resources.
Like Rhea said, they're a great opportunity for collaboration.
Just-- I just feel so connected to zines as also a way
to circumvent the way that publishing is gatekept for many
people--
most people, I would say.
And it's just a really cool way to take back power
into our own hands and use our voices and our art
and the core of who we are and put it out there
and have it be available to people,
and have access to other people's hearts
and art and words.
And it's amazing.
It's radical.
Like it truly is.
It truly is.
Are zines the focal point of your art making and activism,
or do you see it more as a secondary part of a larger
practice?
And I guess a lot of what we've been talking about so far
is sort of your relationship to zines and that art style,
like getting your feet into it and learning about it sort
of as an observer.
And now we're kind of getting into the part where
you're already in that space.
You've been there for a while.
And so at this point in time, how do you
view that art practice of zines?
Is that your primary practice, or is it
serving as an extension of this other, maybe larger thing
that you're working on?
Floor is open.
I'll go ahead and jump in.
So I guess I would consider myself an artist who
does a lot of different things.
Zine making has definitely been part of that for a long time.
I also paint, make music, just keep a journal.
So in the sense--
I wouldn't say that zine making is my primary focus when
it comes to my art life, but it has been very therapeutic
and very helpful when I'm feeling discouraged
or when I'm not-- feeling like I'm
unproductive in other ways when it comes to making art.
A zine is almost something I can put together in a night if I--
you know what I mean?
Because I do pretty low-brow stuff.
It's not fine tuned.
So I can go through sketchbooks and find drawings I like
or illustrations that I like and kind of
knock something out and do something physical,
too, put it all together.
I mean, for everything from printing the stuff out,
like laying it out, figuring out a dummy model and what pages
are going to be butted up against the other pages,
doing it at home, cutting everything, stapling
everything.
And it's just, it's art therapy.
It's making something with your hands,
and your mind gets a little clarity
for even just a few hours.
And then you just-- you have something to show for it.
And at that time, you did all that work for yourself.
So you want to just give it out.
You want to keep it--
here's, you want it for free?
Take it for free.
You want to pay me $3?
Pay me $3.
It doesn't matter.
It's not hours and hours of painting
where you feel like it's more valuable.
I don't know what it is, exactly,
but yeah, I guess to answer the question more directly,
zine making is part of my business and art life, but not
necessarily the entire focus.
I can go next.
Zine making is not my primary-- has not been my primary focus.
My primary focus art wise has been just writing literature,
writing short stories.
And where they end up, I've posted them
on blogs or online magazines and magazines.
So that, so far, has been my focus.
But now that I'm teaching, and especially teaching kids,
because I have been teaching adults for a while,
and this is my first time teaching underage people,
humans, and I want to bring--
like zine making is huge on my heart
now, and especially because Rhea is back in town.
So we got to do some zine--
we got to do some zine events last year that's
getting me all zine happy.
So now one of my main publishing goals for my publishing company
is to create--
and this is just a goal.
We'll see what happens, but it's probably going to happen--
the Zine Zine, which is just a big yearly book
of all the zines I can collect in southern California
throughout the year, like from June to June type vibe.
So I think that it's a ebb and flow
because I'm always creating zines,
even if I'm not putting them out.
Like Wolverine has zines.
Wolverine is my kid-- sorry, for anybody that doesn't know,
Wolverine's my son.
His name is Wolverine.
And he has zines.
There's the Wolverine Zine.
So zine making is not a primary focus of my art,
but it is a huge part of, like Matt said,
my spiritual and mental health.
It is a part.
Like I do zines like I do yoga, like it's a part of--
to even to work out certain ideas,
like just juxtaposing, like you said, designing something minor
that might--
I want to become something bigger.
I do that constantly.
So yeah, I wouldn't call that a focus.
I would almost call it like the anti focus,
like the thing that helps me be able to focus
on everything else, you know.
Yeah.
Zines for me have been more connected to my organizing work
that I do than my creative identity.
I am a musician and a writer, and I do use zines
as a really powerful personal outlet.
However, yeah, the majority of my relationship to zines
has been organizing zine fests, zine events, opportunities
for people to meet one another.
Because that is a huge, huge passion of mine,
particularly in a city that is so spread out.
And finding-- continuing to find more accessible ways to connect
people through zines.
I also, in my work with Uhuru, who I mentioned
as part of #SNATCHPOWER--
I can hear Sondria saying "snatch" in the background--
Uhuru is also a founding member of a band
called Fuck U Pay Us and is currently living in New Orleans
and has just purchased a home that
is going to be a artist residency
space for other QTBIPOC, trans, disabled,
sex workers-- all kinds of folks can take refuge in this space.
And the journey of buying that home
was something that Uhuru and I worked closely together
on for years to learn about.
And through our process of organizing and learning
about that experience, I documented
pretty much everything.
I transcribed everything during our meetings,
and we started creating zines together
about housing discrimination, about the racist practices
of mortgage lending and credit scores.
And I have been editing those into zines that I hope to--
[BARK]
Oh, here we go.
[LAUGHS]
I'm going to come back to that.
He's going to have a moment.
Jen, you want to hop in?
Yeah.
When I first started making zines,
I think my focus was giving myself a voice, which
I think was important.
But I think my focus with zines now, especially within my art
and activism practice, is to uplift voices of queer femmes.
And one of the ways I do that is with a zine
called Hairy Femme Mother.
And it's submission based, and it
talks about the nuances of body hair
for queer femmes of any gender with a--
I do try to prioritize Black Indigenous POC femmes because I
think those experiences are rarely
talked about when we're talking about body hair, queer femme
or not.
And so that's something that's very important to me,
that I can use whatever platform I have to, you know,
share those-- share that art, share that discourse,
share that knowledge, that power.
And so through doing that zine, it's
really helped me learn how to be of service, how
to use what I have access to and the gifts that I have to help--
not even just help other people, but share
that with other people, connect people, let people know,
hey, this person's cool.
Check out what they're doing.
Or they have something important to say.
Listen.
And so it's been very collaborative for me,
and that's really, I want to say, the core of what I do now.
It's really been-- it was the starting point for me
to refocus, like go inward, do that work,
and then be like, OK, I'm ready.
Let me go outward.
How can I be of service to my community, the greater
community?
So yeah, so it's very important to what I do now.
Thank you all.
I love-- like Adam mentioned earlier,
I love how this conversation is just organically progressing
as our questions are coming up.
And so there's a lot of themes that all of you
have shared, such as the theme of liberation,
the theme of activism, and how community really
forms part of zine culture.
And so the next question is, what
is the role of community in zine making practices,
and how do you use zines--
and how do you use zine making to build community?
To me, zine making is about building communities and then
sharing your communities, right?
So it's like, you get your friends together,
and you do something, and then you
want to share that with other people.
And then they have their own community of friends,
and then you make friends with that group.
And then it's a bigger community, right?
And you build and build and build.
And there's definitely direct avenues
that you can take when you're doing zine making,
whether it's focusing on this or that in your zine making.
But ultimately, the idea of it brings everyone together,
in my experience.
Oh, you do an art zine?
Oh, I do a writing zine.
Oh, I do a poetry zine.
Like, oh, we do short stories.
We do pictures and photos.
And you vibe off each other, and then you meet new people,
and then your connections grow.
And through that, it helps bring everyone together.
You don't focus on what's different about what you do,
but more that you guys are doing similar things.
And maybe that comes from music and bands and playing
with people that you don't know and different styles
and whatever.
If someone comes to your town and is a touring band,
maybe you sleep-- they sleep on your floor.
And maybe when you go up to their city,
you sleep on their floor.
And you build a community through just
connecting with each other on that basic level.
And zines really provide that for a lot of people, I think.
Sondria.
All right, looks like we have a pattern going.
Yes.
For me-- I think that zines are the community, to a degree.
It's almost like you're part of the community before you know.
But then when you have a zine experience,
a brush with zines or a brush with as zinester,
and then the zine in you activates kind of vibe.
So it's like you're--
everybody has this little bit of, you know,
a little zine spark in them.
It's just about, are you about to be initiated or what.
So I feel like it's like a-- or even a skull
and crossbones type vibe, like secret society.
And then it just-- something clicks.
Like the day that [INAUDIBLE] took me to the zine fest,
it was like nobody had to tell me--
once I was in the building, all I had to do
was walk in and see it.
And then it was like, I knew exactly what
I was going to do after that.
Like, I know I'm-- oh.
I have a book for that.
I know how I'm going to table it.
I know how, you know?
And then I linked up with #SNATCHPOWER,
and #SNATCHPOWER got-- they're like, oh, wait.
We can put this stuff in print?
We can-- everything that we're doing politically,
we can make this a print thing.
And so that became--
but those things already existed, you know?
So I think that zines, either the zine is the community,
or the community is already the zine.
It's just about rubbing together and catching that activation
at the right time.
And I think a lot of times the zine fests--
zine fests are a way to initiate those organic pop offs.
Because the whole festival, your mind is blown about how--
I learned-- I learned about so many different types of people
through their zines and through going to zine fests
that I would not have normally connected with, that I normally
might have been looking at them like, eh, mm,
I don't know, looking like a colonizer.
But I'm like, no, this motherfucker's down
because I got to read their words at the zine fest--
the fact that they're even in the zine fest building shows
that they're down in the first place
because it ain't easy not to be down in those spaces, which
we love.
Like we wanted that to be the vibe.
Like don't be in here taking up space that's
supposed to be independent space or supposed
to be people of color space or supposed to be-- unless you're
with the shits, you know?
So I think that that thing already exists.
And then the zine--
zines existing kind of activates it.
But yes, I'm going to stop.
I feel like I'm rambling now.
No, no, actually, what you share right now
got me thinking that maybe the actual physical zine is
the tangible community.
And you're able to hand it out and pass it around.
Thank you, Sondria.
Jen, would you like to go next?
Yeah.
The way that the zine--
like zines are community for me is
it's an opportunity to connect with all kinds
of different people.
It's an accessible way to connect, typically,
with all kinds of different people.
It can be teaching moments, right?
Like zines can be resources in terms
of recipe sharing, herbalism, DIY stuff,
political type of zines.
And so it really is putting the power of communication
and knowledge and art back into the community in really
incredible ways, I think.
It gives people that don't normally have a voice, a voice.
It gives-- it's just this way to connect, to share, and to learn
and listen and witness and to commune.
So--
Yeah, I echo so much of what you all are saying.
And I think what I want to add is
that community is complicated.
And a big part of what I have experienced and learned
and grown from in various communities where
zines are a focus is a lot of--
I've experienced a lot of painful--
personal painful learning moments.
Like I have made zines that are a reflection of the space I
was-- the knowledge I had at the time,
that were a reflection of the identity I held at the time.
And I look back on those zines, and I'm very cringy.
I'm like, wow, this is very white feminist, like--
and I was just passing it out.
Like, don't worry.
It's free.
Like, oh my god.
I want to-- and I can't get that back.
It was-- that's one of the really interesting,
powerful things about zines is that you
don't have an editor that's sitting there like, OK, this
is problematic.
A lot of times, you have to be that editor that's
checking yourself, and hopefully the people around you who
you share it with.
And yeah, I've had to really learn,
what is the responsibility I have of someone making zines
if I want to share that with people?
Like there's a responsibility there.
And I've gotten better at it.
And I've also-- yeah, I've made some zines
that I wish I could make disappear.
[LAUGHS]
But it's just a reflection of me being a complete person
willing to share my journey, and that
is all the celebratory things and all the things about me
that just make me a complicated-ass regular degular
person.
[LAUGHS]
Wonderful.
Thank you.
Thank you for all of those insights.
I feel like even in this panel discussion we're having now,
we're building community.
Because we all came together from our network, right?
And I know some of you, and some of you I don't, but now I do.
And now I'm probably going to go follow you on IG after this,
and hopefully you all follow each other.
And I'm so elated for our Chaffey community
to see you all in the physical space next week
when the Zine Fest returns.
And just knowing that--
thinking about the first question of how you all
got into zines, like, your zine could very well
be that for a community member at Chaffey.
And that's incredible.
So we're keeping the legacy going.
And I was just like--
hearing what you were all saying,
like what Jen was talking about, I just-- it
gave me this idea that zine fests are kind of like farmers
markets for ideas.
You know?
And I just think that's so-- that feels very communal to me.
And you all talked a lot about the idea of the tangible,
like Sandra said.
The idea of the tangible zine--
and we're talking about a physical space
and going to a zine fest.
And then when we think about that for this next question,
this technological moment that we've
been in now for the better part of two--
almost two decades now with social media,
where does zine culture fit with social media?
How and why do you feel like zines are still
relevant in the age of social media?
I can take this, please, ASAP.
I love paper.
It does not matter how fast the phone moves.
It doesn't matter how long the battery lasts.
I fucking hate screens so bad.
[LAUGHS] So to me, aesthetically,
like that human thing that I have, I feel like it's not--
I'm not alone in that thing.
And zines may be the last fucking standing
thing we have that's still paper because everything-- you know,
like the Boston Globe shut down, man.
The Globe.
Print is dead, you know what I'm saying?
But zines are going to zombie that shit because zines
ain't never going to let print die because that's their level.
It's this hand-to-hand.
It's part of the code.
You know?
And I feel like that is the--
I like to call it like guerrilla publication,
but it's like the street version of things.
And the street version don't go out of style.
It always sells.
You can have as many dispensaries as you want.
I bet you you still got a plug.
So yeah.
[LAUGHS]
I want to say something around that, too.
I love what you said, Sondria.
It is like a--
it's a physical connection, right?
It's a way to connect.
My friend, Laurent Corralez, is really
expanding my idea around that in terms of accessibility.
One of the things that he does is
has like the paper format of zines,
but then also records them and does like an audio zine,
and also scans them and has like the digital zine as a way
to circulate that information in--
with the tools that we have now.
But also still doing the paper zine, right?
Because that's becoming a lost art.
And when we don't have the internet anymore,
we're going to have that paper.
[LAUGHS] So that's exactly what you're talking about,
and I feel that.
Like yes, absolutely.
I'm just going to piggyback off you guys.
It's a romanticized idea of when the internet is gone
and we're all reading by candlelight,
but that we would still have something physical
to hold and to read and that information that you associate
with a certain time or memory in your own life,
or an idea that sparked something in you years
and years before is still there without electricity
or batteries or anything needed, and that you
can hold that in your hand.
And it might just be a crazy idea,
but you never know what's going to happen.
We live in a crazy world, right?
So if everything was to shut down,
at least we could bunker up and read all our books and zines
and remember what we felt like when we got them.
I think one thing I will add to that is just
thinking about surveillance, and you can certainly
make a paper zine and pass it around.
And there's surveillance cultures present in IRL spaces,
of course.
But yeah, there's just something about the--
yeah, just like the relationship to digital identities
and the encouragement of us to be surveilling one another all
the time that I have found solace in in a zine,
even if it's just making like a poetry zine
that I give to five people.
There's just, yeah, something special about that.
Now that you've all shared your wealth of knowledge
that you have gathered throughout the years,
I'm going to ask the final official question,
and then we're going to go ahead and open up to the Q&A
with the audience, as well as the panelists
want to also ask each other a question, go for it.
But what advice do you have to offer for people
getting started in zines?
I would say just do as much as you can.
There's no wrong way to do it.
If you like what you're doing, if you're having fun making it,
whatever you want to do, do it.
I know, to call back a little bit of what
Rhea said about looking back and seeing it-- maybe
it was a little cringy and stuff that you wouldn't 100%
write now or do now.
It's in the moment, and we're all
growing all the time, right?
We're only getting-- we can only strive
to be better than we were in the past, right?
So it's like with every new project
you do and every new thing you approach,
you're going to get better at it.
But you're not going to get anywhere if you don't try
or if you're scared to try.
So just make as much as you can.
Throw it out there.
I mean, every artist could tell you,
we look back on our songs and drawings and paintings
and we're like, man, it sucks.
But you only get better by making shitty paintings.
And that's as much as I can add, but just encourage yourself.
I mean, encourage your friends.
Build a community.
Get people together.
Be the one to be the catalyst that you want to see.
If it's your first time making zines, my advice would be,
just know that your imagination is the limit.
Even if you've seen all the zines,
you haven't made yours yet, so you haven't seen all the zines.
[LAUGHS] And I think that's something to consider.
Whatever you want to bring to a zine
is what will be now be a part of the zine community.
That's how much effect you have and how much
you matter within that space.
You're not just anybody in that space.
You're one of many, and you're one.
So I think that that is--
I think you should be creating with that
in the front of your mind, that the community
that you're creating for cares and wants
to hear what you have to say.
So you don't have to convince us to listen to you.
So that might help when you're making art.
We already want you.
Come on.
I think so.
Yeah, that's my advice.
Thank you, Sondria.
Rhea?
I would say I have--
the majority of my friends are other neurodivergent people.
And I say that because everyone I
know has these brilliant obsessions with info dumping.
Like my friends will have like week of,
like, oh, I'm obsessed with this particular historical event.
And I've learned so much about it,
and I feel so guilty because it's not productive,
and it's not a reflection of capitalism.
Or I learned so much about this particular video game history
and where the soundtrack comes from,
and now I just feel really bad about myself
because this-- like why did I just spend
so much time doing that?
Any time I hear my friends guilt tripping themselves
about those types of interests, I'm like, zine.
Make it a zine.
Put it into a zine.
Maybe you won't even finish it.
Maybe you'll lose interest, or you'll burn out,
or you'll move on to something else.
But that's OK.
It's worthy.
Like those-- it's a worthy--
a worthy experience to have.
Yeah, I guess my sort of advice would be, zines can literally
be about any topic.
There probably might be a zine about a topic
you want to do already, but it's not your perspective.
So do it.
There's so many different ways to also create a zine.
You could go the cut and paste route.
You could do digital layouts if you have tools like that.
If you're like Matt said, you have your sketchbooks,
and you're going to pull stuff out
of there, if you're pulling stuff out of your journals.
There's so many different ways to do it.
There could be ways that we haven't even thought of
and you did.
And that's why this is so important.
That's why this is like--
it's sacred.
This is our way to connect on our own terms
and to learn from each other and to just connect.
And that's what it's all about.
So that's-- yeah, that's my advice.
One more thing I wanted to add because I have the zine making
advice, but I wanted to add for just going to experience Zine
Fest in itself, to experience different parts of the Zine
Fest, making zines, and like Rhea said, Rhea's experience is
heavy on the organizing side because I've gotten to do I
feel like almost every job at the fest.
And it's let me know what things are my strong points.
Even as much as I love the LA Zine Fest,
I'm not a strong organizer.
That's not my shit.
You know?
I love doing the application reviews
on that level of organizing it.
But logistics about where it's going to be
and all that stuff, that's not my shit.
I don't get excited about that part of Zine Fest.
So I would focus on the part that gets you all tingly.
Awesome.
Thank you for that, Sondria.
And thank you all.
And Jen, I loved how you described it as sacred work
because it really is.
You can put out a zine on a perspective
that may resonate with others and may inspire others,
or that's how you connect and you create community.
And going off of what Sondria said,
definitely go and participate and see a zine fest.
OK, so I'm going to go ahead and read one of the questions.
Let me quickly go up to it.
OK, so there's a question for Sondria from Jen.
Sondria, can you talk about your Afrofuturistic short story
and art series?
OK, so Afrofuturism, yes.
My first Afrofuturistic story and my first sci-fi story
was "Fight in Heels," which was a fan fiction
story based on my #SNATCHPOWER collective members.
And that became what is now my writing style, which
will probably be my writing style forever,
which is a mixture of sci-fi and erotica.
And I think that Jen is talking about The Carverians, which
The Carverians is a series.
It has three parts, two collections of short stories,
and the final one, Carverians 2, that comes out
this summer is a novel.
And it's a sci-fi and erotic collection loosely based
on the teachings of George Washington Carver.
So there's studies about George Washington Carver.
He's not just-- it's not just peanuts with this guy.
He has over 600 botanical inventions,
and he created this rare color of purple.
And so I started this series based on these people that
follow the teachings of Carver.
That's why they're called The Carverians.
They talk to plants.
They procreate with plants.
It's the whole thing.
It's a whole Carveraverse.
But yes, the Afrofuturism in my--
that's my main art thing, is bringing
Blackness to everything.
Even though I love standard American English--
that's my shit--
I'm heavy on colloquialisms and making sure
that the boom bap is included in the dialogue of everything
that I write and emphasizing the intellect that's
found in our communities over institutional intellect,
especially where those things conflict, and one of them
fed you, and the other one is just
telling you that it's right.
So yeah, that's kind of what my fiction ends up
being based around.
I don't think I can go into how I do that right now,
but yeah, I always think--
for me, future, we don't--
in my culture, we don't think linearly anyway.
It's a circle.
So the future is the past, and the past is the present.
Any unfinished business gets done the next time
around type vibe.
So it is the future, like Jen said,
but it's also a imagination of George Washington Carver.
So it's kind of like a past thing too.
So yeah, man, that.
I love that shit.
We can talk about that all day.
[LAUGHS]
Nice.
Thank you so much, Sondria.
And we do have another question.
I'm just going in the order.
Rebecca asked, do any of you have
thoughts regarding analog versus digital for you
and your own zine practice?
And any one of you can just chime in.
I'm going to pop in real quick just because I struggle
with this one in my own art making constantly
because everything is so digitalized,
and it kind of has to be, to a certain extent.
When you're working with people from around the country,
it's a lot harder to send original artwork.
Sometimes people don't want to.
Some-- they'd rather send you a scan or do something like that.
So when you're collabing with people
or you're doing an anthology, a lot of it's based digitally.
In my own personal work, I hate digital.
Like, I would rather just put pen to paper,
put a paint brush on a canvas.
Whatever it is, it's a physical act to me
that is so much more rewarding than doing something
in Photoshop or Illustrator.
Even though I utilize those tools and I have to, I just--
for me, I would always go physical over digital
if I had the chance to do so.
But it's almost a necessity that you can't just
do something one way.
I've been thinking about this for next week at the fest
because the zines that Uhuru and I make together
that I think Ace was barking during me talking about them,
but there are two zines that we've made together so far.
And I've been trying to decide whether--
like, I can go to Kinko's, get the print that looks--
and I don't say Kinko's because that's my preferred place
to make a copy.
But it's like, sometimes that's just where you have to go,
and you can't scam them anymore, which is kind of-- it's a pain.
It's such a pain.
But yeah, just making that decision
of whether you can upfront the cost of making
a particular number of copies of the zines that you make.
And the zines that we made together are in color,
and I really like that they're in color.
But if I bring them to the fest, I'm going to have to--
each zine would maybe cost me like $10 to print.
And is that worth it?
Because then what would I have to charge someone?
When really all I want is them to just get this information.
So yeah, I might try out, for example,
making some black and white copies
and having a little QR code for folks
to scan it and get a digital version.
So yeah, I have been--
I've been going back and forth about that.
Because you have to upfront the costs when you're going
to table at a fist, so yeah.
I can go next.
And yes, Rhea, facts.
I'd already know about the SNATCH zines,
and yes, they be $20 zines.
[LAUGHS] Like, we have to charge $20 to cover the printing
costs, so I already know.
But yeah, for me, the beginning-- the whole beginning
of my writing career, I would not
provide digital or audio versions of my books.
So my first three collections, everything before Carverians 2,
which is the last-- the fourth book that I wrote
and the last thing that came out,
nothing had audiobooks and stuff like that
until after that one was coming out.
Because I was just so violently opposed to it.
I'm like, well, if I wanted you to-- if I
wanted it to be audible, I would have made music.
Or if I wanted you to-- type vibe.
And I think that now, I'm not so precious with that thing.
I'm more like, the paper exists.
Me making-- me releasing Carverians 2 on Kindle
or making the audiobook version doesn't change that.
And it also gives me an opportunity to present it,
to present the material in a different way.
Like on the audiobook, I get to do voices,
and I get to do adlibs and stuff like that that I
don't get to bring to the book.
So I just started kind of having reverence
for presenting the printed work in another way
that I didn't have respect for before.
But yeah, I'm definitely pro paper,
especially because everything-- everything
wants to not be paper.
Books too?
That's ridiculous.
It's fucking ridiculous, you know?
Like in my mind.
Like I'm like, at the very least, let books stay paper.
Let everything else go digital.
But yeah, that's my thing.
All right.
I wanted to pop in with, when we opened the Q&A for everybody
viewing, we got a couple not questions
but comments that I just wanted to read to our panelists.
So Ashlyn, they said, "No questions, but just want
to thank all of the speakers for your insight."
And Rosario said, "Loved hearing from everybody."
But we do have a couple more questions.
I'll let Sandra read mine, but I have another one from Rebecca,
and it's for Sandra.
You had mentioned Wolverine and zines.
And is that a practice that you two do together?
Wolverine is our baby.
Wolverine was in the womb at Zine Fest.
Wolverine within the stroller at Zine Fest.
And yeah, when I started--
as soon as I got pregnant, I actually
started working on this project, which I think that next week is
going to be the first time I get to present it anywhere,
called Oh Shit, I'm Mom, which is
like a collection of just kind of my maternal experience
when I was becoming a mom.
And I'm like, who's going to even be write--
like I'm not going to--
people-- it was so funny because people were like,
you're not going to be able to keep up with these notes.
[GRUMBLING] And it was just like, no.
I totally kept up.
Like, I got seven years' worth of fucking shit to share.
And for Wolverine's zines, it's dope
because he didn't pick up on reading and writing
as fast as I thought he would or as fast as I did as a kid.
He's more into drawing and puzzles.
So his zines are dope because they're picture stories.
And then now he's adding words.
So I like that a lot.
And then the thing that I call the Wolverine Zine is the Oh
Shit, I'm Mom zine because that's the Wolverine Zine
kind of dedication vibe.
I think that I've actually--
I think the first ##SNATCHPOWER zine actually in 2016 has
a couple of excerpts from Oh Shit, I'm Mom, actually.
So that-- but this is going to be
the first time I get to present it as a completed collection.
So yeah, Wolverine learns everything from me.
Wolverine is homeschooled, so Wolverine
goes to the hip hop shows.
Wolverine's out here.
[LAUGHS]
So I'm going to ask the question Adam
had for any or all of the panelists.
Can you talk about your zine name slash
a favorite title of a zine you've made?
What's the story behind it?
I do an ongoing series of sketchbook zines
called Sick in Bed.
And that was just from--
it started just like that.
I was sick.
I had got like a weird flu years ago and laid out
for the first time in my adult life.
This is pre-COVID where you're like,
what the hell is happening?
I haven't been sick since I was a kid.
And all I did was just--
all I could do was sit around and draw.
And the first little zine I put together in that series
came from that week of being sick in bed.
So I've got eight out right now, and I'm
planning on putting a ninth one together for Zine Fest
next week.
So that's an ongoing series, probably the most consistent
one.
And then stuff I've done in the past
is called Milk and Cookies just because I
thought it was a fun name.
And-- [LAUGHS] now I have the Rat Nest zine.
We did the first issue of that one with this business
that I'm running now.
But I think Sick in Bed is probably my favorite.
That's my little baby, is my sketchbook zine.
Oh, yeah.
Real quick.
Unthinkable Act.
Unthinkable Act, that's my favorite zine
name just because it was my first sci-fi.
And so a lot of the stuff I wrote about was kind of like,
you can't do that on television.
So that's my favorite one.
Hairy Femme Mother.
It's basically a basic play on fairy godmother,
but the reason why it's important to me
is because there is a certain brilliance
and gift of knowledge from queer femmes
that not everybody has access to.
And it's kind of like--
[LAUGHS] queer femmes can like--
I don't even know how to explain the magic and the power
behind it.
Almost like you don't necessarily
know how to explain the magic behind a fairy godmother,
right?
But it's real.
And so yeah, so that's why--
that's where that name came from.
Rebecca has another question.
And this is if you could recommend
a zine maker or a specific zine that you
would recommend for us all to check out,
or that you're excited about.
Lawrence Lindell, that is an artist
that I met through La Zine Fest.
And Lawrence does a lot of--
it's comic book style zines, and there
are a lot of mental health-based stuff,
a lot of masculine mental health stuff, a lot of Black people
mental health stuff.
And so I would highly recommend.
I don't know if Lawrence is still making new zines,
but if you can get your hands on Lawrence Lindell--
I-N-D-E-L-L, I believe-- zines, definitely there's a lot
of good dope mental health things in those zines that can
kind of start conversations in communities where mental health
may not be a priority or may be difficult to talk about.
I'll go real quick.
Like I said in the beginning, Slingshot is still
around out of Berkeley.
They do really cool activism stuff.
A lot of just reader-submitted content.
And like I said, it's $4 for a year.
You get one every three months.
And then I work with a lot of comic artists
and like art zines.
If you're into comic art and art zines,
check out Charles Glaubitz, Jonathan McBurnie, Christopher
Sperandio, Brian McCray.
All those guys make really, really cool, fun bootleg zines
and some political stuff, some sci-fi,
some psychedelic, but really, really great artists,
really great artwork.
I'm going to recommend the zine that
was mentioned in my bio, which is Learning Good Consent,
and it's edited by Cindy Crabb.
At this point, it's kind of all been compiled into a book form.
And if you do check it-- it's in a lot of libraries,
and AK Press sells it.
And it is-- the focus of it is preventing sexual violence
and consent within sexual relationships.
But I have found that it has been extremely beneficial
for just the expansive understanding of consent
in all relationships.
And it's one-- yeah, it's one that I've
given to a lot of people and that I constantly buy copies
of again just to hand them out.
So I would recommend that.
I would recommend zines that folks from the Los Angeles
Spoonie Collective put out.
And I think some of them are going to be at the Zine Fest,
including Laurent Corralez, Corralez' zines.
I would also say Tasha Fierce's zine is a cool one to pick up.
Tasha does some transition work, whether it's death,
whether it's just change, transitions in life.
And you can find them at Liberated Transitions
is their--
yeah, is their business, project, organization work.
Yeah.
And yeah, thanks, Rebecca.
Tasha's zine is called How to Breathe Fire.
It's amazing.
And I would also recommend Lilac Vylette Maldonado's zines.
Lilac does a lot of work around disability activism,
the Latina culture, some pretty cool work, some pretty cool
art.
Yeah, those are who I would recommend.
I just want to say thank you all so much.
I cannot wait to see your work in real life next week
and actually get to feel the paper, right?
We're talking about paper a lot.
So excited to see your faces and your paper.
And we do ask that before you head out,
if you can complete a brief survey.
And Rebecca promises that it's short.
[LAUGHS]
I swear.
It helps us a lot to evaluate what we're doing
and helps us in the future.
So if you have a moment, we appreciate you.
But thank you all so much.
I hope to see many of you, a lot of you next week.
And if not next week, then we'll catch you next time.
We're-- zine happenings, it's something we're committed
to at the college, a whole group of us, the library, the museum,
equity.
And so look for more in the future.
We'd love to see you there.
Thanks, all.
Have a great night.
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