Hello, everyone.
Welcome.
Thank you for joining us in today's program featuring
LA-based artist, Isabel Avila, presented
as part of the Wignall Museum's Home Edition,
a series of curated artists talks,
workshops, and discussions featuring
artists and cultural workers.
My name is Rebecca Trawick.
I'm the director and curator of the Wignall Museum.
The Wignall Museum is a teaching museum and interdisciplinary
arts space that introduces Chaffey College students,
faculty, staff, and community members
to innovative contemporary art objects and ideas.
By fostering critical thinking, visual literacy, discourse,
and empathy, the museum seeks to enhance
the intellectual and cultural life of our community.
We want to take a moment to recognize that we are situated
on the Rancho Cucamonga Campus of Chaffey College, which
resides on the traditional and unceded lands of the Tongva
people.
We offer our recognition and respect
to the elders, both past, present, and future.
And hello, my name is Roman Stollenwerk.
I'm assistant curator at the Wignall Museum.
We are recording all sessions of Home Edition.
When possible, recordings are made available on our website.
All recordings on the site include captions and audio
descriptions as options.
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Thank you.
Hi, everyone.
My name is Andy Hadle.
I'm the preparator at the museum.
Along with Rebecca and Roman, I'll
be assisting in today's Zoom session.
In a moment, Isabel will present for about a half an hour,
with the remaining time being available for Q&A.
Thanks, Roman and Andy.
Today I'm pleased to introduce our guest artist, Isabel Avila.
Isabel Avila is a Los Angeles-based artist
who primarily uses color film photography
to document aspects of cultural history.
Isabel is dedicated to exploring local histories of Southern
California, focusing on presenting
a subjective perspective of the overlap
in local, Native, and Chicano culture.
Avila's photographs show the history
of living, working, and actively creating
a counternarrative to mainstream perception.
Avila received her MFA in photography
at Cal State University at Long Beach
and her BFA in photography and imaging
at Art Center College of Design.
Avila's work has been shown at institutions
such as the Vincent Price Art Museum, our own Wignall
Museum, the University of Dayton,
and LACMA's Charles White Gallery.
Work from her Native America series
join the collection at the Gene Autry
Museum of Western Heritage.
Avila has completed a series of eight portraits
of Native Americans for the permanent exhibit Becoming LA
at the Natural History Museum of Los Angeles.
So please join me in welcoming Isabel
and give her a warm virtual welcome.
Isabel, welcome and take it away.
I just want to say thank you to everyone for being here,
and thanks for having me.
Basically, I'm a photo-based artist,
working in Tongva Territory, also known as Los Angeles.
And when I'm making my work, I am
exploring pretty much personal identity, family history,
history of land, Indigenous, political,
and colonial history, evolution of cultural history
and identity, race and effects of discrimination.
And this is my exploration of putting the pieces together
of my own family history.
So I think things start with my questions
to my grandmother, who is now deceased.
And these are both pictures of her and the one in the left
is the portrait she took when she was 18, I believe.
And she signed it Bretha Martinez.
Well, let me rewind a little bit.
So I would ask my grandmother basically about family heritage
and a lot of what was passed down
was a lot of Spanish ancestry as to what part of Spain
my family is from and things of that nature.
But a lot of the Native ancestry was
sort of hidden or kept or something that
was to be ashamed of and something that was
intentionally not passed down.
So it started to get me more interested
in knowing about that aspect of my ancestry.
And if I can bring attention to her signature
again on this photograph, her name is Dolores
but she signed it Bretha.
And that's like a derogatory term
that is used to describe darker skinned girls.
And by looking at the signature, it
looks like she wrote over it.
Maybe she wrote Dolores on it and then wrote over it, Bretha.
And it was sort of loaded that this term that was given to her
was something that she probably didn't really want
and this active awareness of your skin color in sort
of a caste system.
And then the picture on the right
is also of her that I took much later in undergrad
but I just threw it in there as a sort of contrast
of what it would be like photographing her
in a sort of classical setting, which was something
that I thought would be interesting to do.
So I took that.
And these pictures will come in later,
which I will show you in a bit.
The image on the left is of my great grandfather.
This is my grandmother's father, who was of Native descent
and her mother was very Spanish.
Light-skinned, blue-eyed, fair-haired, and everything.
And she ended up marrying this man that she
met working on the railroads.
They were working on the railroads
out here in California.
And basically, my grandmother's mother was widowed.
They were Spanish ranchers and the husband
got murdered for the ranch.
And so she was widowed with quite a few children
so she married this man that I guess you can say
was below her caste or whatever.
And she had more children with him.
And the product of that second marriage was my grandmother.
And so thinking about this environment
that my grandmother grew up in that
was a family environment that actually was there
was internalized prejudice in that family.
And so, there's a lot of these issues
I think that exist in Latino culture
that people don't deal with or haven't dealt with.
And then the image on the right is another family image.
It's my aunt's but I'm using it as an example
as all of our family members have gone
through this religious ceremony of Catholicism,
first communion.
And it's a reflection of the church's role in society
as contributing to some level of erasure,
which we'll get to later.
So in this photograph I took, I got that old photograph
of my grandmother that I showed you guys
and I stretched it out.
And I've always been a fan of that classic painting,
the Holbein painting, The Ambassadors, which
have the skull that stretched out, the anamorphic skull.
And I love that painting.
So I got that photograph of my grandmother
and I stretched it out in this way, where
it obscures her identity, obscures who she is,
and embodies the feeling of me trying
to explore or know some aspects to this family history.
But just like the Holbein painting,
this anamorphic space here, it can be viewed from an angle
and then you can actually see the distortion.
It will shrink in space and you can actually
see the image, if you see it from a certain angle.
And then I used a couple of these other images
that I just showed you.
This is like an exploration of exploring and just thinking
about family issues and history and past and how these things,
they carry a lot of weight.
And they carry a lot of weight on the individual as product
of these things and how there's historical trauma and family
trauma, things that get passed down.
And just thinking about ways, how people
deal with these things or how do you navigate
through these issues that are very personal and also
very social and broad.
So this is a representation of that.
So thinking about these issues of internalized family racism
and social class structures and caste and things.
Thinking about the time also that my ancestors or people
living in this area at the time, what they experienced
as new waves of influence-- political,
social, cultural influences, started to come into the Los
Angeles area and thinking about the current living history
and where these things come from.
So I started to look at Junipero Serra, who was the man,
he was the friar.
He was an agent of the Spanish Inquisition.
Basically, he came out to America
to develop the mission system.
And he developed the mission system
and he's so ingrained in the history of California.
He's just everywhere.
There's so many different things that are named after him.
And I basically took some photographs
of buildings and schools and libraries and streets
and different things that were named after him.
His memorials, essentially.
So this is a little bit of that.
This is just a close up of the Junipero Serra building.
So you can see the name right there.
And then these are books that I checked out
from the Junipero Serra Library on Junipero Serra.
And that was really interesting because they
had a lot of children's books that were there
teaching children who he is and what he stood for
and how important he is to California history,
and failed to give a bigger picture of the complexity
of the situation because history is very complex
and his role is very controversial.
And basically, the Native community
is greatly impacted in a negative way
based on what he did.
Though there's a lot of conflict of ideas where it's compared
to other situations maybe on the East Coast, where
the Natives didn't have any rights.
At least, he gave some rights.
He didn't kill everybody.
But he openly was for torturous punishment,
and basically, enslavement of Native people.
But that was still not above treatment of them elsewhere.
So putting the pieces together of history and treatment
of brown people, I guess is what I'm saying.
And this is an image of one of those California mission
projects, the school mission projects
that every fourth grader was supposed to make,
I remember making one.
And I took this picture up the street from me.
And it was just a discarded piece
and I just thought how symbolic it was in a sense.
But today, I think that there is a little more awareness
and a little more education.
I don't really know exactly how.
I think there's some change as to how
they're presenting that California
history to students these days.
But up to maybe a year or two ago, I still went to a school
and I photographed a lot of these mission projects
and I still have these other images of these missions.
And so I mean, I find it fascinating.
But the mission, it was romanticized.
The reenvisioning of the mission,
how it was romanticized, was used during the real estate
boom and the economic boom in California
to bring people to California.
So the missions were dilapidated and then picked up.
This is like makeover as this romantic era
so that investors can come out to California.
So there's more to it than that.
These are two descendants of the San Gabriel Mission.
They're both Tongva, these two ladies, Gloria Arellanes
and Mitzla Aguilera.
So I always see my practice as like digging
deeper like what leads to what.
And so, these two women are Tongva representatives.
Very active in their community.
And Gloria Arellanes, on the left,
I met her when I was doing my Vincent Price project
and I was looking for someone that's
overlapped Native community and Chicano community
and that was active in both.
And she really embodied that.
She is very active in both communities.
She's an elder in the community now and is doing a lot of work.
And so I'll go back to her.
She took me into her life really and she calls me daughter
and I have a very close relationship with her.
And we go to a lot events together.
We're pretty close.
And it's a good thing.
And I did want to add, I did take these pictures
at the CSULB Pow Wow.
And I tried to photograph there every powwow
and I have other images as well.
Another inspiration was the La Raza Exhibit at the Gene Autry
Museum and looking at the magazine,
that political newspaper that existed out
of the Church of the Epiphany and the kind of work
that they were doing.
And that exhibit, I don't know if anyone
got a chance to see it, but it was a really great exhibit.
Well prepared for photo lovers and political movement lovers
and stuff.
But it was a great exhibit.
I have over 300 photographs and a lot of historic stuff.
And what I was looking at were things
like how these cross-cultural struggles like how the Chicano
community was basically supporting mutiny
and also a lot of the Black Panther situation.
So there's a lot of intersectionality
that was happening back then.
And here on the cover of La Raza magazine
is Russell Means and the issue of Wounded Knee that
was happening in the early '70s, and they
were showing their support of that struggles.
I guess it's a colonial struggle,
I guess you would say.
And it's all related.
And also, the magazine has played a big role
in the Chicano movement.
So these are images from that exhibit from the magazine.
And the woman with the sunglasses on the top-right
is Gloria, the woman that I photographed.
And there are various pictures from
different political rallies and such.
And then on the top-left and it looks like the bottom-left
as well, there are Brown Berets.
And I'm really fascinated with just the whole concept
of the Brown Berets.
Because it does fascinate because it's
like it's taken after a militaristic thing.
I'll go into that later.
But anyway, the bottom-left is Black and Brown Solidarities,
all these issues that I'm interested in.
I was able to see were documented were issues
in the late '60s, early '70s.
And I'm just curious how these things evolved.
And here's Rosalio Munoz and the picture on the left
is a documentation of him at that exhibit, the La Raza
Exhibit.
And then images of him on the right
are images that I took at one of these events.
So one of these commemorative events.
And basically, why I'm showing this
is to illustrate that my involvement extends
to me seeking out and attending these events
and looking for the veteran activists
and speaking with them and looking
at how things evolved over time and becoming friends
with these people.
So this is a portrait that I took of Dr. David Sanchez.
He's an activist, a founding member of the Brown Berets,
and really was instrumental in the walkouts.
There were a few people that organized
and were part of the walkouts.
So I wanted to do a portrait of him just to have that.
So I have this one.
And this image of him, he's holding a Ruben Salazar plate.
And that Ruben Salazar, I don't know if anyone knows,
but he was a Mexican-American activist and news reporter.
He worked for the LA Times.
And he was covering the Chicano moratorium of 1970, I believe,
August 29.
And he was shot and killed by a an LA sheriff deputy.
And that was a really controversial thing
that happened.
A lot of people believed he was targeted
because his reporting started to lean towards the left, things
like that.
And he was becoming more of a prominent reporter,
working for the mainstream media, things like that.
So a lot of people feel he was targeted.
So he was shot and killed at one of these events in a bar.
And it was documented as well.
So actually, reporters of the La Raza magazine, the editor
documented it.
So anyhow, this is at the site location of that shooting
and I'm happy to have this image with David holding that flag,
which David, he comes every year to this space to remember
what happened there.
And he had that flag and he put it up himself
on the back of that wall, if you can see,
but it never stays there.
So I guess it falls off.
It was his own thing.
I think he's trying to officialize that it
was sitting on that stuff.
So as I was talking about my involvement,
I try to go every year to the commemorative moratorium events
and document a few things or take some portraits of people
to show who's been there and what's
the identity, Chicano identity or Native identity, what
does it mean.
So this is another portrait that we
took of this woman at the moratorium event
at Salazar Park, which was named after Ruben Salazar.
It used to be called Laguna Park.
These are more pictures of veterans
of the Chicano Movement, Cesar and Cruz Olmeda.
Cruz was also a significant individual who
participated in the walkouts.
They were quite a few different organizers
who participated in organizing walkouts,
so he was another individual.
But these photographs were taken at one
of the commemorative events.
So I attend the events and take my camera and photograph
them there.
So it's not like I'm doing this in the studio or anything.
It's all in the space.
So looking in Chicano community, I tend to look a little deeper.
I guess you can say I identify as a Chicana
but I feel that my Native ancestry is still a blur.
It's still not quite defined.
I of have this idea where some of it
is from but there's still much to be discovered in that area.
And the Chicano titles encompasses
that you recognize Native ancestry
but it's not very specific enough.
So I tend to look into Native culture
to be a little more specific as when
it comes to traditional values and outlook
in life and perspectives of just understanding the world
because Chicano culture is very much involved
in this political sphere.
And a lot of current political things
really influence identity and things like that.
Anyhow, this image is of Shannon Rivers
and he's of the Tohono O'odham Nation.
And this is when I was visiting Arizona
and he was gathering some creosote medicine.
It's a great medicine.
It's great for skin issues and other things.
And he gave me permission or he actually
mentioned that if I can take some images of him.
And so I had full permission to photograph him
as he was gathering medicine.
But that can also be a prayerful act.
So interestingly enough, that as I was taking these pictures,
my camera started to jam and it was malfunctioning.
Well, the belief is that maybe I wasn't supposed
to take the picture or maybe it was something
that you're supposed to be there and you're not
supposed to photograph.
So anyhow, this image got light leaks
and the camera jammed and I had told them about it.
And he was just like, oh, I guess
the spirit of the medicines was really strong that day.
And I guess it was.
I'm leaving it up to your own to decide if that's true or not.
But it's something that happened to me and I think it
happened to me one other time.
Anyhow, so yeah, I do call this a spirit intervention
because of that incident.
And this is a different series.
So I'm bringing this a little more back from Arizona.
But this is Long Beach.
This is Cal State University at Long Beach, also known
as Puvungna.
And for those that don't know the school,
Cal State Long Beach is situated on a Tongva [INAUDIBLE]
gathering space, a village space, a burial ground, a very
important ceremonial space.
So I went to grad school there and I was just thinking,
do people walking around have any idea where they're
walking on and the history of the place
that they're walking on?
Do we have any insight as to this kind
of other world of consciousness that exists on the space?
So it made me think of portals or interventions or things
that we could shift our consciousness in the space.
None of these images are digitally manipulated.
I didn't use Photoshop.
These are all images that I took and that I just
printed quite large and I brought them into space
and I rephotographed them into space.
And I call this one Knowing Water
because there's so much water around
and there's also, on a deeper level, there's a connectedness.
There's knowledge about water.
There used to be certain waterways
and these streams that are now damped up or secluded
or whatever.
But yeah, just this relationship of water and knowing about it
can really help humanity.
And then also, there's so many water issues.
There's the wetlands there that are constantly
being jeopardized due to oil drilling and buildings,
just like the other wetlands and other areas of California.
So it's a constant issue.
I call this piece Contemporary Shell Offerings.
There's a part on the campus on the west side of campus
that's still an open site that people are trying to protect.
And basically, I took the picture of the shell offerings
on that side of campus and then I printed it and then brought
it in to the other side of campus
and placed it into the Theater Building
and I rephotographed it.
And I was surprised how real it looks.
It's doesn't look like photograph.
Actually, it looks like it's cut into the ground.
So I was surprised about that.
And the reason I call it Contemporary Shell Offerings
is because there's other areas where
there's shell middens where there's ancient shell midden.
It's embedded into the ground hundreds of years old.
But these are contemporary shell offerings
that were placed more recently, which shows that the space is
constantly being used and it is continually
being used as a ceremonial gathering space.
And I found this article and basically,
printed it out and set in flames myself.
Yeah, Constant Battles.
I mean, there's a lot of issues.
It gets very complex, which I won't dive into.
But you can actually read some aspects of the article
if you blow it up large enough and the prints that I display,
you can read some of it, but it talks
a little bit about the space.
But I just think that it's ironic
that this man is getting some notoriety for uncovering
something that was there that wasn't really meant to be
uncovered and things like that.
And it talks a little bit about the space
and how important it was to the people that were there.
Thinking of Future Ceremonies.
So this is the area that the image and the images, the area
that I was mentioning on the west side of campus that
is an active ceremonial site.
So I took this picture and brought it in.
And I think there are some issues with the school dumping
soil on the land currently and it
not being removed and just disrespecting the space.
But the trees are beautiful.
And when I think of that space, it's
like I want it to be preserved forever.
But the facts are that it may not
or it's going to be a constant battle for community to have
it be preserved forever.
So access to land is so important as we all know.
And it's especially important for the Native community.
So thinking about the future is connected directly to land,
just thinking about land.
And in this image, Ways of Learning,
I brought another image from the area outside,
on the West side campus, that I took and brought it
into the library.
And it signifies two ways of knowing.
There are multiple ways of learning and knowing things
and how we gather information and are
we gathering information from books, which is a great thing.
And then there's also gathering information from experience
and learning directly from another person
or through going through particular things in present
and how sometimes the things that we learn when we are
present and first-hand experiences
are the things that stay with us very deeply.
But also, this also represents value systems too
because sometimes certain ways of learning
may be valued more or legitimized more,
things like that.
And this image is called Desecration
at the Site of Creation.
And this is another image that they took,
I didn't take this image actually, the middle image.
I consulted with a historian that works
with that space, Puvungna.
And she lent me material and I looked through it.
And then I liked this image that she had
and I used that one and I printed it.
And this rock has major significance on that site.
And the origin stories was stories
of creation basically come from that area where the rock is
on Cal State Long Beach.
And it's for all the Tongva.
It comes from that space.
And so there's a woman that lives next to that area.
And she comes and oversees and looks
and she noticed that there was some graffiti that I
guess happens every so often to the space,
so she documented it.
And I asked her if I can use that image and she said yes.
And I printed it and I brought it into the space
and rephotographed it.
I think that's all I have right now.
Oh, yes.
I have a few resources I can share
where I got a lot of information that other people might
be interested in these types of topics.
And the Chicano Studies Research Center
is a good one at UCLA that has a huge archive
and they put up the La Raza Exhibit with Gene Autry Museum.
And then Mapping Indigenous LA.
It's another good resource for Indigenous history
in Los Angeles and it feature stories directly
from Tongvan individuals.
And also the Gloria Arellanes Collection at Cal State LA
Library.
It talks about a lot of the Chicano Movement
as well from her personal collection.
And the Puvungna Wetlands Protectors,
an organization that is organizing
to preserve Puvungna site and the surrounding wetlands.
I'm open for questions.
I hope I made some connections and I hope I didn't go over.
Thank you so much, Isabel.
I have to tell you I really connect strongly to the work
that you, I mean, all of it I think is really incredible.
But I really connect to that last series
that you shared with us today that you did at Long Beach.
I love how you're photographing photographs
in space and within architecture.
And I love how you contrast the past and the present
and, like you said, conflicting values
of ownership, land, space, ceremony,
acquisition of knowledge.
So thank you for that.
Really beautiful.
I also really love the series that you did on Junipero Serra,
if I'm saying that correctly.
And I know this is like a huge, huge issue.
So I know we only have limited time.
But it certainly made me think of the canonization
of so many colonizers and people who
have done overtly questionable and racist things
throughout history and within the last year especially.
Although over time, we've seen a lot
of those public sculptures toppled or be removed,
either forcibly or through city council meetings or whatever.
I just wondered if you had any thoughts
to share on what we see happening with those monuments.
Yeah.
I think it's really interesting.
Well, obviously, they were made monuments for a reason
and they do have a power.
I think every monument has a power.
And I mean, if I was a Black person in the South
and I would see colonial monuments,
it would make me feel quite diminished,
I guess you can say.
I mean, thinking about whose histories are celebrated
and things like that.
So being on California and seeing
a lot of statues representing Junipero Serra,
and from my perspective, I know that the situation is obviously
very complex.
But overall, I think there's space for other histories
to be shared and told and monumentalized and celebrated
in such than these narrow perspectives of this history.
Because they represent the lines of history
that we've been told, the narratives,
the constructed narrative really of history that we've
been told growing up that we continue to hear,
unless we seek out alternative historical facts, or I mean,
that sounds weird.
It sounds bad.
Unless we seek out other history that really happened.
And a lot of it was well documented.
So it's not like it doesn't exist.
It's just not being taught.
So I know it's complex.
I can't say I'm missing any of those statues of Junipero Serra
that have been toppled down.
I think that I'm completely OK with it.
And we have enough memorializing of him.
I mean, there's so many other things that
are named after him everywhere.
It's embedded everywhere.
I think Stanford's leaving some labels named after him.
But I think even with a few statues missing,
his presence is still very strong in California.
And this idea of the monument, I think
that we need to look at as well, like,
do we really need those monuments?
We have a question in the chat from Peter.
Peter asks, "How important is beauty in your work, which
is striking?"
It was striking?
So a comment and a question together.
Oh, OK.
Thank you.
Thank you so much.
I go in and out of the idea of beauty.
I know beauty, it's important because first, it
brings in the viewer.
It makes the viewer to pay attention to your work
and interest in your work.
So I know that beauty is really important.
I know in some contemporary art, beauty is not as important
and I respect that too.
It's more about the ideas that are being represented.
But ultimately, I think that it's a fine balance
between the ideas and beauty.
So ultimately, I would like to have both the idea of what
I'm trying to say and beauty work together to bring
some interest to individuals.
I love that you shared resources.
I appreciate that.
Thank you.
So in that spirit, are there any artists
whose work is really inspiring you and that you would
recommend that folks who are interested in your work
check out?
Oh, yeah.
I was thinking of that.
You want up-and-coming artists or people that I like?
I really like the work of Adam Brumberg and Oliver Chapman
and they are South African photographers.
They have been working a lot in photography
that they documented the climate after the apartheid.
And I think now they're in England
and they're really looking at issues
in Israel, the Palestinian-Israeli issues
and stuff.
But I find their perspective to be interesting
and I think that they have beauty and a message as well.
So I like their work a lot.
Well, they're pretty established obviously.
There's others as well.
I wonder if you could talk about how you build trust
in relationships with the communities
that you photograph.
Yeah, that's a really big thing for me, trust.
Nothing beats personal relationships.
And I think that's the most important thing.
I think the relationships that we have are very important.
So building relationships, making sure you respect people
and what they want, their desire, things like that.
Working with people and how they want to be represented.
So that's definitely one way.
On that note, I love that you are documenting folks
in the activist community.
And I love that you're showing the longevity of their work,
I really love that.
I think especially showing the La Raza pictures and then
these folks today, and the fact that they're still showing up,
they're still fighting, they're still doing this work,
I really think that's amazing.
So taking this another direction,
but we'll have students who will view this in the future
and they'll be interested in how can I be an artist.
It seems impossible.
Like, how do you create a career around making art?
And so, I wonder if you have any advice
that you would share to young artists who
are interested in pursuing art about longevity,
about creating a career that has [INAUDIBLE]
Yeah, it's not easy.
I think there has to be a certain fire
and level of interest that it's going to sustain you
in spite of anything else or all obstacles
and in spite of financial insecurity or whatever.
There's these some other things that have to propel you for it.
And I think most of that is really
your love for what you're doing, what you believe in,
and if you're working with certain issues,
those issues that you want to bring forth or bring
some attention to.
How have you found inspiration, if you will,
or motivation during the pandemic this past year
to continue with your artworks?
Yeah, that's been kind of tough.
I think that's been tough for everybody, but especially
for photographers because you have to meet with people.
And a lot in the beginning or a good deal of the pandemic,
people didn't want to meet up.
And are you vaccinated?
I didn't get vaccinated until very recently,
which I didn't know if I wanted to do.
And so those issues are always coming up
so I looked more inward.
And I was doing other things.
I think I started learning music with friends a bit
and looking through maybe stuff that I already have,
I'm reconfiguring my life.
But ultimately, I think all these things,
they all add to you as an artist.
All of life and forms you practice forms you
or your perspective, things like that.
So all these experiences, you can use them on some level.
But yes, it was quite tough.
It wasn't my most productive time.
Well, I want to be conscious of your time, Isabel,
and our attendees.
I want to thank you so much for spending some time with us
and sharing more about your practice.
It was really a joy to hear from you today.
And I want to thank those of you who attended live today.
We appreciate it.
Please visit us online and to learn more
about future programs, Roman will just
put our address in the chat.
He'll also follow up with a very brief request again
to complete a survey.
We'd really appreciate a couple of minutes of your time.
It'll help us in planning for the future.
So thanks again, Isabel, and thank you all.
Please take good care and we'll see you in the fall.
OK.
Thank you.